To wonder if Labour really understand the implications of their attack on private schools?

[Bumpitybumper]

I've just found out a private school near me is almost certainly closing. I honestly think this is a disaster for everyone involved. Obviously the direct employees (teachers, caretakers, caterers and cleaners etc) and the suppliers will suffer. The children will now need to find a new school either in the state or private sector. Easier said than done considering many of the good local schools are full so there it isn't like they are applying for a state schools with a full range of options that everyone else has. Most importantly though, I wonder if the government has quite anticipated the type of children that they are disrupting and harming here.

I withdrew my child from this private school because the school was basically acting as a bit of a school that unofficially specialised in SEN and my child doesn't have a SEN so it was a poor fit. Many of the children struggled with behaviour, socialising and needed adaptions to the school day to keep them on an even keel. The school managed this fine as it was small enough to adapt and create an environment that wasn't too stressful for the children. I am seriously worried about what will happen to these kids now. I don't think many of them could cope in a state setting, especially one that is struggling already to deliver a good level of education to the children there. I honestly think these children will either have their own education decimated or they will incredibly disruptive and resource hungry which will impact other kids. I feel really angry on these poor children's behalf. The parents that I know that sent their kids there were doing so as a last resort because they had been failed by the state sector.

AIBU to think that Labour really hasn't thought through who they are impacting with their anti private school policies? They are nowhere near nuanced enough to target the privileged only and inevitably many struggling and SEN kids are going to be hugely detrimented by this.

Luxury goods (yes, private education is a luxury good) should incur VAT.

The real scandal is state SEN provisions.

Obviously it comes from taxation.

it is obviously going to improve outcomes for children in general to fill up the state schools. Adding a few extra children to a state school will have virtually no impact on the schools
outgoings but will increase their budgets so they can improve quality.

I used to be a school governor in a comprehensive and had to preside over staffing cuts (TAs and similar - not teachers) Those staff were absolutely vital for some very needy kids and the head was very worried about knock on effects such increased behaviour issues. If we’d had an influx of a few extra kids in the school and therefore a bigger budget we might have been able to keep them. Many state schools have removed whole subjects from their offering due to cuts.

Such a naive comment.

Do you know how long the lead time is for getting an EHCP at the moment? Kids are going years without having their needs acknowledged, never mind met.

Do your children attend mainstream state school? What would you do if your SEN child could no longer cope with state school, the council waged their hands of their responsibility, your child was self harming and school refusing and the school suggested they’d thrive in mainstream secondary? What ‘choice’ would you make then? It’s giving up work to homeschool or dcrape together the fees for private.

I and so many others have been in this position. We chose the latter. We would FAR rather we were £2k a month better off and the council actually provided us with a school place that we pay for through our taxes, but they couldn’t give a shit so here we are. Then we have to pay VAT too. Can you see why it’s a kick in the teeth???? We’re not all hooray Henry’s wanting to separated our kids from
the great unwashed.

I can tell you that they aren’t charities “just on paper”: that’s a really stupid thing to say. They have to comply with pretty stringent charity law, governance and accounting just like any charity does (the National Trust is a charity, for example, and so are lots of other things you might personally consider not charities, but that doesn’t stop them being charities.)

There’s no need to make throwaway statements that aren’t actually true. It’s easy to educate yourself about charity law instead - you can just go on the charity commission website and gov.uk to start with.

Don’t confuse “charitable purpose” and “public benefit” - those are different things in law. A donkey sanctuary still has a charitable purpose and public benefit even if it only looks after five donkeys and is open to the public two days a year, for example - whether you think it’s a charity or not.

Things will be so much better for them with a load of additionally challenged kids in the classrooms demanding a share of the already limited resources, won’t they?!

Really, do you really not understand that by taking on the financial burden of educating and supporting those children in the private sector they are freeing up resources and shortening waitlist for ‘thousands of kids whose parents can’t afford’ it?!

This spiteful policy will hurt the most vulnerable children in our state schools and on the wait lists with CAMHS for assessment. The same ones you are harping on about.

Your 1.2% figure is the percentage of kids with an ECHP that go to mainstream private school

You do realise that the parents of private school children are already taxed to make up the education budget? So if their children go back into state, the amount of state funding per capita actually goes down? It’s a zero sum game; they’re not getting any extra in total, just dividing the existing education budget amongst more children. And logically, there is no reason why adding a few extra children benefits your school. Your school might end up with a few extra children but more SEN costs. Or just enough extra children that you really need an extra couple of teachers, but the funding isn’t quite enough for that, so everyone’s experience gets a little bit worse.

No, my point is it comes from the education budget. Not general taxation. Labour are already taking about cuts. Don't be so naive. The individual school may well welcome the additional funding but overall it will mean less money to go round.

It’s madness. A spiteful policy for no gain to state education.

No wonder we’re outliers on this with Labour.

@Breezybetty I recognise your story as this was a common tale amongst my child's old classmates. To be honest, I was educated in a pretty awful state school and had a bit of a preconception about private schools so I was utterly shocked to discover that lots of the parents at the school were worse off than the parents I know at my child's current state school. They were not rich by any means but were scraping together the money for fees as they genuinely felt that the state wasn't meeting their child's needs. Private education may be a 'luxury' to some, but it is an essential for others when they can't access an adequate state education.

It is really really crap and I feel very sorry about the whole situation. I am not Labour's biggest fan but I do find it hard to believe that they genuinely meant to target parents like you.

No, it is as I stated.

1.1% of children at school are at private school and receive any level of SEN support.

1.1% of all children who attend school are at a private school and receive support for SEN.

i’m not saying the cost per capita goes down because each state secondary school gets £6k per pupil. I’m saying the quality for all the children in the school goes up because there is more spare cash.

it’s not much use for us a country if a handful of children (in private schools) get a fantastic education and the majority get a substandard one due to the constant financial squeeze on second schools. Although I do of course understand individual parents wanting to pay for the best for their kids.

And yes, you have a fair point about private schools have a disproportionate number of SEND kids.

I don't think there is a parent in the UK who doesn't think SEN kids all over the UK need a better deal. Better for the children with SEN but also better for those kids in class with them as teachers are usually trying to juggle too much.

Which is why I find comments like your's so aggravating - no one is thinking they want other people's kids to struggle. It's just labour's PR noise creating a divide between society.

Parents with SEN kids who have moved them to private are already helping to ensure better provision at the state schools because the government is not having to cough up £7k each year for their child anymore. Of course the government could keep this £7k in the system for extra support the SEN kids whose parents can't afford private....but no one ever seems to ask the Government why they don't do this.

I never see this question asked - why if the government is saving £7k a year when a SEN kid moves from state to private - can the government not leave that £7k in the state school they moved from? I mean they were going to spend the money anyway if that child had not moved to private. Other countries actually give parents a rebate if they move their child to private - I am not suggesting that but it would make sense for the government to allocate money per school age child and invest this in the education system rather than reduce school budgets if kids move private.

Surely the education budget is from taxation. Please don’t call be naive - that’s uncalled for.

Yeah.

My dd got one in 8 months, 18 months ago. Actually 16 months as it was just before Christmas.

Sorry, I didn't mean to insult you. The education budget will not increase just because my child is now being state educated. It won't increase if lots of the kids from the closing private school go to the state school. If a school is receiving additional money for a pupil then cuts are being made elsewhere. You will notice there is already talk of cuts and this is because the education budget is already overstretched. The last thing it needs is more kids to fund.

The majority of school-agechildren with EHCPs are in state education. Labour has said it will exempt children with EHCPs from its policy of paying VAT on private school fees. The DfE’s figures show only 1.2% of children and young people with EHCPs attend mainstream private schools, while 5% attend private or non-maintained special schools
https://www.theguardian.com/education/article/2024/jun/13/record-number-of-pupils-have-special-needs-support-plan-in-england

It's pretty obvious that this school is closing down because people like you withdrew their children, possibly for similar reasons, and it is not sustainable financial model. It would have closed down in the near future irrespective of VAT.

How do you know that?

Why does it need to be nothing to do with VAT? You can’t possibly know that on the description given and I am very interested to understand why you feel the need to declare a school closure as being nothing to do with VAT?

How is this obvious? I have said loads of times that I was the only person I knew that withdrew my child from that school. People really will just make up their own narrative.

@justteanbiscuits
Just to add context for this particular school, just less than 30% had SEN according to the government website on the school

But they managed to stay open until a truly dreadful policy was put into place by the Labour Party. It’s funny how the tariffs are causing so much anguish when apparently private schools shouldn’t have felt the impact of a 20% tax!

Most of the electorate who actually voted for Labour were voting for ‘Not Tories’ rather than really wanting Labour and believing in all aspects of their manifesto. The Labour Party used that chance to get some of their pet projects in place. I think they will come to regret this one but, sadly, so will a lot of school staff and children.

So many posters declaring a 20% tax has no impact. Why is that? Because it’s education or children, who knows.

Look at the immediate interest in the tariff on the auto sector and talk of damage and job losses. Although in this case Labour are handily doing it to their own education sector. What an unforced error did to spite.

The blind spot over this tax is nuts. Politically driven, but madness.