To wonder if Labour really understand the implications of their attack on private schools?

[Bumpitybumper]

I've just found out a private school near me is almost certainly closing. I honestly think this is a disaster for everyone involved. Obviously the direct employees (teachers, caretakers, caterers and cleaners etc) and the suppliers will suffer. The children will now need to find a new school either in the state or private sector. Easier said than done considering many of the good local schools are full so there it isn't like they are applying for a state schools with a full range of options that everyone else has. Most importantly though, I wonder if the government has quite anticipated the type of children that they are disrupting and harming here.

I withdrew my child from this private school because the school was basically acting as a bit of a school that unofficially specialised in SEN and my child doesn't have a SEN so it was a poor fit. Many of the children struggled with behaviour, socialising and needed adaptions to the school day to keep them on an even keel. The school managed this fine as it was small enough to adapt and create an environment that wasn't too stressful for the children. I am seriously worried about what will happen to these kids now. I don't think many of them could cope in a state setting, especially one that is struggling already to deliver a good level of education to the children there. I honestly think these children will either have their own education decimated or they will incredibly disruptive and resource hungry which will impact other kids. I feel really angry on these poor children's behalf. The parents that I know that sent their kids there were doing so as a last resort because they had been failed by the state sector.

AIBU to think that Labour really hasn't thought through who they are impacting with their anti private school policies? They are nowhere near nuanced enough to target the privileged only and inevitably many struggling and SEN kids are going to be hugely detrimented by this.

Some would and some wouldn’t. The added VAT isn’t going to help any business. Why do this to any sector after the last sixteen years? Surely we want all businesses to thrive?

I do hope the ‘they were failing anyway’ crowd will say the same about the businesses affected by the tariffs. The only difference is that this is OUR government deliberately hurting OUR country.

There are 9,092,073 children at school.

615,000 of these children attend private school.

5.7% of pupils in private schools have an EHCP.

16.7% of pupils in private schools receive some level of support for SEN.

16.7% of 615,000 is 102,705.

102,705 of 9,092,073 is 1.1%.

You’re going to get a lot of nasty replies here because there’s a huge group of mumsnetters who are relishing in the chaos of this and hate private schools and the people who go to them.

you are absolutely not being unreasonable. Labour hasn’t thought it through or they did, and like the group I mention above, has dehumanized anyone who has any private school affiliation. Monsters the lot.

the court case happening has been very interesting to listen to- it’s clear labour made this about hate and designed it to cause as many issues as possible.

This attitude really is so tiring. I can’t afford it so nobody gets it. Parents of SEN kids either jump through the lions den to get funding at private schools or kill themselves working multiple jobs to put their kids there.

Very few are wealthy. If you think taxing private schools more is the answer you’ll find even more schools closing as children are educated in more favourable countries.

From OP'a description. Small enough to adapt to individual needs, caters to SEN, but not officially so.
OP took her own child out because it was a poor fit for them because they don't have SEN. Sounds pretty niche to me. And not necessarily in a good way.
Those types of schools are on the brink for a long time before they collapse. OP insists hers is the only child to have been removed. If only one child leaving is enough to make it close, it wasn't VAT that did it. It hasn't been in place for long enough for that to have happened unless it was already in a poor financial position.

neither of us know how the overall budget for schools will change from one year to the next.

Bur yes, the government is talking about cuts everywhere. If the pot does increase, the options for the government are to save elsewhere, borrow money or increase taxation.

if your child moves to a state school today, that school will benefit to the tune of £6k and will be able to use that money where it is most needed for the benefit of as many children as possible. That we do know.

Which sector do you work in that an extra 20% tax would make you say ‘I think you’ll find they’d close anyway’

Would you be immune somehow or ready for job losses?

Right, so where does the “extra” £6k come from? Either the existing education budget funds it - in which case the £6k has to go down - or the education budget goes into deficit and the taxpayer has to fund it from elsewhere. It isn’t “new” money because the tax has already been paid and the education budget set.

If the education budget one year is £6k per child, for x number of children, and then suddenly there are an additional number of children, but no increase in the education budget, what happens?

Either the education budget has to increase (where from?) or the amount per child has to drop as it’s now divided between more children.

There’s logically a point at which the amount raised from VAT is cancelled out by the extra cost to the taxpayer of the extra children moving back into state; and/or the amount per child overall diminishes.

A simplistic example:

Imagine the state education budget is £1200 for a total of 200 children - £6 per child. School A has 20 children, so it has a total of £120 funding.

Then 20 more children join the state sector. The education budget is still 1200, but for the next academic year it’s divided by 220 children it’s now £5.45 per head.

Two of the “new” children join School A. The total number of children is now 22, but at £5.45 a head their income is now £119.9.

Do you see how this works? Obviously the numbers differ depending on economies of scale, but at a certain point of adding children you also add more costs - staff, in particular. So you can’t just keep adding more kids without incurring extra costs.

It’s entirely possible that schools’ income actually decreases. The alternative is that the education budget has to increase to maintain that £6/£6k per child amount. But where from? General taxation at the cost of something else? Another tax rise elsewhere? Is the VAT raised going to equal the extra amount? Probably not even close, and Labour haven’t actually committed to that — just said it’s for free breakfasts etc.

if I’m losing my job, everyone should lose their job…Sounds like politics of spite to me!

(There’s no money to employ more teachers in state schools, even if he wanted to go back into state education. The Labour Party has awarded wage increases but expects schools to fund them. The only way to do that is by making staff redundant and not replacing those who leave.)

Except that children moving into state would likely move to a state school for next year — when the budget is likely to be cut, stay the same, or at best rise with inflation. In all those situations the amount per capita actually goes down.

They do already have massive tax rises over 100k that’s why so many doctors and dentists eventually go part time because it costs them more money to go over that threshold.

I've just read the concluded consultation on the closure of two maintained primary schools and one sixth form, local to me.

Falling roles. Not enough pupils to keep them open.

Some extra pupils will be a huge benefit.

Not near me - it’s the opposite. Good state schools are oversubscribed by numbers like 400 applying for 120 places and many secondary age kids are being sent out of the city and travelling miles to school.

There’s also a demographic bulge around years 6-9; you do realise that newborns don’t go straight into sixth form, no?

I don't know why people think that this is a terrible business model when it's clear that there are a hell of a lot of kids with SEN as well as kids that aren't officially SEN but are certainly in a grey area where they thrive in a school with smaller classes and flexibility to meet individual needs. The school's class sizes were average for a private school it wasn't some weird niche offering.

My child leaving absolutely didn't close the school. It was the combination of the NI and business rates increase and the anticipated impact of VAT in the long term on demand of places. Not all schools are willing to stay open until the bitter end. Some can see the writing is on the wall and government policy has certainly played a huge roll in that.

Also it's very common for businesses to operate with relatively small financial buffers. If we condemned all these businesses in the way you seem so willing to condemn private schools then our economy really would be in dire straits.

That’s because most people don’t understand what having a sen kid is like and even those with them (I have a severely autistic child in specialist provision) still don’t always get it.

and beyond understanding, the point more is we should have choice as parents where and how to educate our children.

Yes, agreed, the gov might decrease funding per child. When I was a governor (roughly 2014-2022), the funding was constantly reduced. But they might increase it. neitht of us of us know.

Even in areas with falling rolls & closing schools you will still get oversubscribed schools because not all schools are equal

By "on paper", I mean they do the bare minimum to comply with the law. A few 20% bursaries and bam, they are compliant.

Taking my most local private school (and it's very similar in most of the local private schools) - 100 kids per intake. They offer 5 bursaries of up to 20% for each year group. The head teacher is on £280k. No, they don't pay dividends or what ever, but they have just built a state of the art gym for £1.5m. A gym that puts the local David Lloyd to shame. Membership for the gym for non pupils is £80 a month, and can only be used outside of school time. And doesn't include the pool.

Businesses don’t pay tax, consumers do. Businesses collect the VAT for the Government. Not all businesses charge VAT on their goods and services because some goods and services are exempt.

Whereas in my area a primary sxhool has just opened as there is a shortage of places. If even just one of the local prep schools close, it is going to be a nightmare as there is no spare capacity in any of the local primary schools. Not all areas are the same.

You don’t even know the difference between goods and services. A school is not providing goods. And VAT has nothing to do with something being a luxury or not.

Other people are arguing that labour haven't thought through the cuts to disability benefits...

The government that started relying on private providers for special needs instead of the state sector hadn't thought it through. And 100% David Cameron's 2014 reforms which pitted parents and schools against local authorities which they were impoverishing at the same time as the internet was poaching shoppers were not thought through.

Conservative voting closed the mines and impoverished the working class which led to Brexit. Now we no longer have an empire nor are part of the EU and mergers and acquisitions have given foreign companies and governments power over us. This means the government kowtows to them and can't redistribute wealth. Very few people can afford private school and many can't afford enough food.

Businesses operate to make a profit for their owners. My DC’s private school does not do that. It is fundamentally not a business no matter how much you say it is.

In any event, not all businesses charge VAT. Many goods and services are exempt.

There is going to be no money ploughed into state schools as a result of this policy. The Government is already making cuts to the state education sector. Furthermore, it’s unlikely that it will make any money. Three private schools have announced they are closing in the last 24 hours alone. The Times reported that applications from private school pupils to state sixth forms have massively increased this year. This policy is going to end up costing the taxpayer money.

And there are huge numbers of private schools that operate in buildings that are little more than large residential houses. These are the types of schools that are closing. There is nothing elite about them but the school that you refer to will only become more elite.

Labour are already talking about cuts to state education. It looks like their policies will result in the opposite of ploughing money into it.