Watching Trump - Tariffs - your thoughts

[Livingbytheocean]

Did I actually hear him use the word rape in his presidential address?

I have been blindsided listening to the ‘content’ by the flippant use of that word.

The US has been hit pretty hard, I’m thinking of large cities like Detroit although not sure if it has bounced back recently.

For a market and economic power that size there could be a way to get back production.

I’m not sure about prices though, including labour.

Well personally I am done with all this shite.
This will probably be the final nail in the coffin for the company I work for. We suffered during the first raft of tariffs he imposed on China back in 2017/2018 - we saw an instant drop in revenue because of it. Then there was Brexit (which didn't impact us too much actually), Covid, Ukraine-Russia, NI increases, and then other impacts due to industry specific issues relating to China's embargo on imports.
So I am done.
I have nothing left to give to deal with these issues at work (I am a senior manager so I am expected to care), so I am just going to sit back and wait to see what happens. I suspect the company will fold and I couldn't care less to be honest. I haven't the energy nor the capacity to worry about it anymore so I'll just sit and wait for my redundancy pay out.
The world has changed forever and it is not going to improve any time soon with the likes of Putin and Trump on the world stage so strap in and enjoy the ride folks!!
WW3 next starting when Trump tries to seize Greenland.

“Trump derangement syndrome” 😂 you’re aware this economic genius has tariffed several entirely uninhabited islands?

And nobody is “triggered” by the asinine buffoon. They’re baffled by the staggering lack of economic competence it takes to slap complicated tariffs on countries based on a trade deficit the US created! This is not a partisan issue. Plenty of Republicans are saying this is a ridiculous idea. It’s more than likely for the political gain of bullying countries into bending the knee rather than any kind of economic benefit.

I suppose this is what you get when you voted in a convicted felon and sex offender who seems to be confused by the word “groceries”.

Well getting into a vindictive and economically harmful trade war that will damage US manufacturing and likely increase inflation and the cost of living is not going to help working people.

Jesus Christ stop blaming Harris and Biden for Trump’s madness.

You think Trump’s tariffs will reduce American’s cost of living…?

This. He seems to take it personally but consumers just find other car manufacturers are better than US ones and don’t want their Frankenstein food.

Why would you think they are correct? It’s a “calculation” based on him alleging trade barriers and currency manipulation.

Not actual tariffs.

But they aren’t. He is claiming “tariffs” based on what he calculates is the cost to the USA from “trade barriers” and “currency manipulation”.

Why would I be triggered by him?

I disagree completely with the way he's gone about this policy because I believe that even if it's successful in the long run, which is highly doubtful, it's going to consign the people he purports to care about to at least a decade, but more likely a generation (or two), of being poorer, less healthy, less wealthy and less educated.

But why 'triggered'? Why do so many people on the right use that term when what they mean is 'has a rational opinion that's different from mine'?

At my eye clinic which sadly I know only too well I had an emergency on a Saturday. Met a lovely Sri lankan spending two years here. He was stunned at the snail pace that the clinic worked at. Back home they'd do 60 cataract ops in a day. Here 12. He said in the UK the NHS is rationed.

I did note this at the hospital when having a gastroscopy the nurse in charge had a meltdown because she had 12 patients to treat.

My USA friend clocked it when taken ill here. Stomach issues. Only one test, then next day results. So another test booked for the next day. Wait for results. Weekend forget it no-one to make a decision until Monday she discharged herself, got on a plane and flew home.

All tests done in hours. Dead colon tissue cut out, colostomy bag for three months for healing time. All back to normal now.

And yes insurance was needed there, but here she could have died

Yes, but your friend's situation is a bit apples and oranges. I'm not defending the speed with which the NHS moves, but her experience in the US is dependent on private insurance. She could just as easily have taken herself off to a private hospital in London and had the same experience, and probably much cheaper too.

I think they are probably the only way of maintaining US dominance in the world, and restoring the balance that has been decimated by capitalism (ie short term thinking).

The problem with the current neo-liberal models is they are all about maximising profits and there is zero strategic element to the thinking.

For example in the steel industry it is all about sourcing the cheapest product possible rather than maintaining a domestic capacity to produce steel. Then when it all goes tits up and a war or unforeseen event comes along that requires locally produced steel the excuses are "no one could possibly have ever forseen this was going to happen".

We had it in PPE for covid. Basically local production has been decimated, so when we needed tons of the stuff we had no capacity to produce it and had to waste billions on procuring stuff rapidly, a lot of which turned out to be sub standard or unsuitable.

The problem is maintaining that strategic element comes at a cost and a cost that short term capitalism is unwilling to pay.

Other countries that are less capitalist take a much longer term approach to business. For example the state will fund strategic businesses that operate at a loss to ensure they maintain control over supply. They will undercut their foreign competitors with state subsidies to decimate their competitors and ensure that when and if a crunch point hits they are in a dominant position.

Tariffs are a weapon against such activities as state subsidies.

@GasPanic The kind of long term centralised economic planning you’re admiring is currently practiced by… China. Isn’t that interesting?

@GasPanicinteresting post. Idk how it will translate to US but worth thinking about.

I wouldn't say I admire it.

Clearly you can identify 2 extreme strategies.

One is to simply go full on neo liberal and let capitalism do its work. The price for that is you outsource your independence and lose control over your own ability to create jobs and control your own economy. It's probably a good strategy for maximising world economic output and minimising environmental stress. It essentially suits international corporates because their only loyalty is to their own bottom line.

Then the other is to maintain everything under your own control. In this case everything gets more expensive and world economic efficiency is not maximised because of replication. The government though has a lot more control over the local economy and industry and of course the decreased reliance on the ROW means the local security is not compromised, or at least does not become dependent on the whim of the ROW.

There is probably a reasonable balance between these two extreme points, but where that balance point lies and whether we are at it or not is difficult to determine.

Yes, I know. Its a combination of loads of things. And different for different products. Must be nigh on impossible to work out an average.

But US exporters do face all these barriers. I don't see why everyone goes nuts when they impose some of their own.

But they don’t face barriers. A trade deficit is not a barrier. For example he has placed tariffs on Lesotho and Mozambique because the US imports more from these countries than they export. But why is that a surprise? These countries have natural products (such as cocoa or vanilla) that the US requires while there is little that the average Mozambican could afford to purchase from the USA.

A trade deficit is not a trade barrier and it’s mad the the President of the USA (and you) do not realise this.

www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-us-trade-tariff-math-is-crazy-wisdom-of-crowds-author/

He's such a plonker!

“all these barriers” what barriers?

do you know what a trade deficit means?

But a tariff is a barrier. Like the 10% that we apply to US cars or the 24% we stick on their jam. These things exist on both sides.

Granted, using the deficit as a proxy for the sum of all the barriers is very rough and ready, but it's not like the US are the only country to apply tarrifs. Those in glass houses etc. etc.

I note no tariffs imposed on Russia or North Korea

Given the sanctions there isn't really much to tariff on Russia and I think the US/DPRK are still technically at war so not much trade there.

My dh company has a us part that are probably going to be closed as all the products they sell are made in china. The UK & European part of the company will not be affected as they don’t sell into the us.
A huge own goal. I understand he wants to encourage companies to manufacture in the US but they can’t switch that capability on overnight. The cost of manufacturing in the US will not be affordable to many companies anyway.

Starmer is the big winner here. This is absolute manna from heaven for him politically.