Fed up of reading threads asking how they can get out of paying care home fees.

[Nextdoortomeis]

As per the title.
I'm sure lots of people would like the state to pay care home fees.
But we don't live in a fair world.
Both mum and mil paid nearly £70k in fees
yes I didn't want to pay but I also wanted them to get the best care in their later years.

But if the children do not live in France it would be hard for the French government to enforce that. And I wouldn’t give my dad a penny- makes me blood boil even thinking about it.

Especially as we consider their far longer life expectancy needing that social care.
The elderly last on average 2 years in a care home. It’s peanuts in comparison

Is that £1900 / month or ??

I was one for a number of years. As a young person a long time ago it was accepted that the job security and pension provision was very good, but the pay was modest. When I went back into a local government role, I was paid more than the equivalent private sector job, with a far better pension scheme than most. The pension scheme and pay was better than a similar role in the Civil Service. The NHS revised their scheme and it is no longer as good.

Not all public sector pay scales and pension schemes are the same. The LGA one is amongst the most generous.

It wouldn't be hard for the French government to chase children living overseas. It's a criminal offence punishable by up to two years in jail & a €15,000 fine not to support your parents so in theory you could be extradited. More importantly there is a debt that can be pursued through the courts just like any other debt.

Although it appears there are exceptions and the enforceability is less clear after Brexit.
Heres a couple of answers on a legal website.

That's not it at all.

You've bought a house, you've lived in it.

When you move into a care home, someone has to pay for that as well as your care. Why not you if you can afford it?

If someone does not have any assets to pay for their care would you suggest they should be thrown on the street?

I find it really interesting how people assume that someone with assets is a person who has always worked hard and made prudent financial choices whereas a person without assets is someone who hasn't. There are lots of people who work hard all their lives (including those who work in care homes) but have no assets as they can barely make ends meet, let alone buy a property. You are in no way better or more deserving than them.

The 2019 Hague Convention comes into force in the UK in July 2025 & basically reverts to pre-Brexit position i.e. a French court order can be enforced by a bailiff in the UK.

I don't think it is and my mum has burned through more than £250 000. She's been in care 9 years.
Suppose your parent was ill and needed a carer. 16 hrs a day @ £12.21 p.h.= £195+ per day. Plus overnight. I do realise that's 1 to 1. So £1,367+ per week just for daytime care.

Care homes have economy of scale for sure but they also have to have heat, light, 24 hr staffing, activities and food. Plus all the ancillary staff.
Obviously different care homes have different fees but I don't think mum is being ripped off. She's run out of money now and is on local CC funding with a contribution from her. She's safe, warm, fed and cared for by the most patient people in the world.

Money buys you choice. Your relatives can move if they don't like the place or you don't. CC funding means you can't.

They don't get care for free. A financial assessment means that a person's income is taken into account with the fees. Mum is left with a little per month for clothes, toiletries etc but the majority of her pensions go to the LA.

In todays terms that £250000 isn’t that much for 9 years. It’s just £540 a week
Average today is £1266 a week

So that nine years would be nearly £600,000 - state pension so about £500,000.

Im not critiquing or judging the post in any way or even suggesting inaccuracies I was just surprised at the low figure. So I did a calc based on todays figures

You can move if you are not happy or for whatever reason.
You just need to liaise with the LA to arrange.
No one is ever forced by LAs to stay in a particular place against their wishes.

Well my figures were very rough. Mum was self funding for 7-8 of those years. Money from sale of house plus a reasonable pension so she was ok for quite a while. You could add another £150 000 of pension over those years and possibly other money I'd forgotten about. All gone now though.

Mum came out of hospital last yr. Needed nursing home. She was placed in one at a weekend's notice. There may have been an alternative but it took weeks to get that placement. Not everywhere takes LA funding?

Only 1 in 5 need a care home so I am hoping not to be in the category of needing one. Both my parents died in their own house of 50 year (literally in the house - a lovely way to go). My father however who was last to go spent his life savings of £130k on at home night and day dementia care from about 10 ladies on shifts in his last year of life so much more expensive than some care homes.

I doubt the state will do anything much for me - it has always just taken from me to give to others. The more it takes the more it wants tax tax tax on and on and on cradle to grave with very little paid back , even child benefit from stripped from me and even state pension which I was supposed to get at 60 is now going to come at 67 if I live that long and will be taxed at my highest rates so will leave just about enough for my £5k council tax bill and ab it of heating.

Well glad I am not French as I don’t see why any child should be liable for their parents.

Agree
Plus nursing care is harder as there are far more particular needs to take into account and so less choice
However
LAs cannot force people to stay if they don’t want to.
They just might find if their care re nursing is particular they will have to move far away.
That , however, isn’t unusual

My dh had a brain haemorrhage and had to go to London for the operation as no one did it near us, or even in the whole of Kent at the time! It’s specialist care and provision so understandable

The argument is that your parents supported you when you needed it so now it's your turn to repay the favour. If you are French you might grumble but you accept it not just because it's the law but because it is the normal expectation of society that you look after your parents when it's your turn.

the difference nowadays is that most of us couldn’t afford to have family live with us and care for them because we have to work. Past generations have also been able to purchase/ put deposits down on houses with inheritance, whereas now mortgages are easy to get. It’s all a knock on effect !

So I’m guessing far far less people are state funded in France.
As either the elderly or their kids have to pay.
Is that so ?

Any idea on % paid by tax payer ( here it’s about 50% )

That’s hard. Hope your dh is ok now. I wanted mum somewhere nearer so it would be easier to visit and fortunately she has landed in a good place.

My Dad did not support me I have not seen the man in 30 years so not sure that argument holds up for many. I don’t think he even knows where I live and hopefully he hasn’t moved to France 😂. But you says it’s about 2000 a month - that could be someone’s whole salary…how is it split amongst sibling or step siblings? There seems to be so many what ifs to its enforcement.

I have no idea. I found this fuller description of old age care in France but I will leave any further Googling up to you.
https://www.frenchentree.com/living-in-france/retiring/preparing-for-old-age-in-france-care-homes-home-help-benefits