To think that not toilet training your child is borderline neglect?

[PithyNavyViewer]

If your kid is four and still in nappies, that’s not a “gentle parenting choice” - it’s just lazy.

I don't think the "wet feel" ones are that much, if any, more effective. They basically feel a little cold, but usually the kids don't seem to care about that much.

It's a lot different than a pair of traditional training pants or a nappy, which really are uncomfortable, and in the case of the training paints will still often involve needing a clean up after an accident.

It's also the effect on the parents - if you can ignore the accident you have undermined the attempt and probably undone the last successful attempt to potty.

Yeah.

There have always been kids that struggled and took longer due to some kind of special needs, or a physical issue. There have always been a significant number that need night protection a lot longer. None of that is new or startling to people who deal with children a lot. Even when the problem hasn't been identified, there is usually some sense that there is a larger issue at play.

It's the kids that would have been expected to be trained by school age at the latest but somehow seem to be missing getting trained.

My kids the minority … the wet feel worked well for them. They did not enjoy feeling cold and wet.

I'm so sick of seeing these comments. My NT DD was toilet trained day and night by 2 1/2 and DD2 just before she turned 2 (she's autistic and couldn't bear feeling wet).
DS is 5 in June and doesn't understand. I think he's worked out what a toilet is for but that's as far as we've got. He's autistic (getting official diagnosis in April) and while I know people say I'm not talking about kids with SEN how about we just don't talk about it? How about we just support each other,?
My absolute dream would be for DS to be toilet trained, it's no fun changing his nappy and being accused of being lazy is just mean.

I do think this country has gotten just a whole lot more cunty recently - as this post perfectly demonstrates.

There’s a ton of sneery, judgy posts looking down on others that they deem “less”.

There’s a whole host of reasons a child might not be toilet-trained by the age of 4, even setting aside potentially undiagnosed SEN.

Jesus, just give other people a bloody break, eh?!

My MIL has said that when she was a young mother, all children were reliably toilet trained by the time they were 18 months old or so. She was not from the UK and at that time disposable nappies were not available in her country. Very few people had washing machines at home either. It’s understandable in these circumstances that most parents were highly motivated to make sure their children were toilet trained at an early age.

Disposable nappies, pull-ups,etc. have reduced the urgency of toilet training for some parents. I think it is neglectful when parents don’t even bother to help NT children without SN to learn this basic skill.

I can't even begin to imagine a child not using a toilet at age four, unless they have a particular condition, special needs, etc. There's nothing harsh about encouraging a child in that respect, they get to the stage when they know they want to 'go', less nappies are used, and they want to be a big boy or girl.

All children she knew maybe. It's really not that easy for some. All kids not managing it does not equal parents are definitely not even trying. You can try your ass off and for some kids there are reasons it takes longer. Enjoy your sense of superiority and your MIL's limitless "wisdom" though.

My eldest had a horrible time with impaction and constipation.

The disimpaction routine meant he was constantly leaking so needed pull-ups.

Shock horror over 4! 😱

Generally I can't get worked up about it.

It's pretty dumb to equate the two because that's probably not what's happening.
For some kids it may be developmental and not working "fast enough."
For others, their parents probably did try but did not persist or use the techniques that would work. We KNOW there are many families in this country with chaotic, difficult lives for many reasons. We know this. Threads like this with their snotty little tongue-in-cheek attitude are just an excuse to pretend we don't know this and take a little pop at those families. And no I don't mean they have to work two jobs, commute, life-is-tough-for-all-of-us, blah blah bootstrap blah. I mean they are depressed, ill, have a mental condition, were parented abusively, the list goes on. I'm talking about parents who love their kids but are not getting it right. Your sense of superiority will do fuck all to help them. Not all parenting is ideal and as this country slides further into poverty that will get worse. Don't pretend you don't know who this thread is shitting on and that you're not enjoying being able to sneer without having to excuse your lack of empathy.

Don't feel bad, as I'm sure you know, the night dryness thing is hormonal and it will kick in eventually. It's nothing you did and to my mind just toughing through it whilst avoiding a sense of shame for the child is the best thing you can possibly do. My sympathies though, I know it can feel horrible especially when you have the benefits of "experts" like the ones on this thread.

@PithyNavyViewer yeah genius, it's not a "choice" at all, you think it's fun for any parent?? What do you want them to do, slap the kids dry??

We used washable nappies and think it does make a difference. Also the fact that you have to wash and dry them means you don't want to be doing that any longer than necessary - especially in winter when you can't get them out on the line.

I can't even remember what age my kids were fully toilet trained because it's just such an uninteresting and unimportant thing about them, in the scheme of things. I do remember that they were 'ready' in that it was pretty low effort on all our parts - they weren't pissing all over the floor or needing me to chase them around with a potty.

How does anyone have the headspace to care how other people approach this? Honestly, there is so much more to life.

It's not laziness all the time FGS.

I deferred DS as a summer born with a speech delay and still in nappies until the day before his 5th birthday (been trying since he was 2). Under SALT, referred for ASD and ADHD, EHCP in place.

He is now (7, 8 in July) a chatterbox, his teacher told me that my decision has been the best and Year 2 is exactly where he should be. The referrals are still hanging somewhere in some obscure waiting list.

Sometimes it's just a combination of children developing at a different pace and the diagnostic system not being fit for purpose. But if sitting on your high horse makes you feel better, feel free to go ahead.

@PithyNavyViewer mine were both dry day and night by second birthday! you just have to stay in for a week and get going with it!

I tend to think like with obesity, if something affects so many people there is societal change going on due to several factors.

Also, it's just anecdotal that "all children were trained by the age of 18 months" in the 1970s ot 1980s or whatever.

Judging by the sheer amount of public information films made then about things which would today be parenting 101 I'd say there were plenty of neglectful parents back then, having no idea where their kids were all day long.

I think too many people on this thread are taking it as a personal criticism of their parenting.
Despite it being clear kids with SEN or nighttime betwetters were not included* *posters with both types of children have jumped in to defend themselves!
As a population (ie millions of us, not just Brenda and her family down the road) we are sending more and more children to school in nappies, the majority of those children could have been toilet trained with a bit of effort.
This affects every child in reception class as teachers are taking time away from teaching to change nappies.
At what point are we allowed to hold people responsible for their actions? We simply cannot excuse every negative behaviour by assuming SEN is behind it, such a change at population level means something has gone wrong with parenting somewhere.

Most times with the early ones in the 70s it was toilet timing not training in nursery we were all trouped off at regular intervals and pottied even now I don't always go when I "need" to go it's on a schedule

Yes my child is one. I honestly think her speech delay is down to lockdown as my other child who has autism was toilet trained by 2 1/2 but my daughter, well, she has been harder to toilet train. I have paid privately for ot (impossible on the nhs in my area) and had no input from my health visitor who merely told me when she is 5 I can apply for nappies through the nhs. Some of us are begging for help from every expert for children to be toilet trained. I’ve even resorted to buying reward boxes, buying all of ms Rachel’s new toilet training items, looping in the teaching assistants at school who work with her.

I wonder how much of it was you felt wet in nappies. And terrible nappy rash as a result. Modern nappies are very good for nappy rash… but the other side of that is the child doesnt feel wet.

my dc are teens and were day-time trained by 2. both were in cloth nappies.

This thread would have really upset me two years ago. I was trying my best with it and had been at it for ages. I felt like a failure. She had been later than expected with rolling, crawling and walking. No additional needs that we know of.

If home and Flexi schooling were easier then a lot of these kids who are not school ready wouldn't be in school.
Unfortunately the bizarre needs for the government to want children of just 4 in school has created some of this issue.