To think that not toilet training your child is borderline neglect?

[PithyNavyViewer]

If your kid is four and still in nappies, that’s not a “gentle parenting choice” - it’s just lazy.

What is it to you? Unless you are a member of staff at a school who has to change nappies in which case yes I can see it's a pain.

And what part of gentle parenting advocates for late toilet training?

It may not be black and white. My 11 year old nephew is still in nappies

So, we're just ignoring how additional needs, disabilities and other factors can all contribute and going straight to making parents feel worse about themselves... How supportive.

Definitely, if there is no evidence of SEN.

My friend. Lovely bright daughter. Talking. Quite advanced for her age. 2 years old. Got no intention of trying to initiate potty training. Whereas my DD was dry by 1 1/2 in the day. Dry at night (mostly) by 2. Son is different. He took longer, but also started at 2. I wondered why nursery were so happy they were trained before starting. Given the number that aren't, I'm not surprised.

This

Op check your privilege.

YABU because children can differ wildly.
My eldest wasn't quite potty trained at that age. He's NT. He had the vague idea but still had accidents at night. He started nursery in pullups.
My middle daughter is ASD and was fully dry, day and night, by 2 and a half!
So are we lazy parents or not? We did the same things with both children.

So i think you are being very judgemental. Kids are SO different. And they are ready for potty training at a range of ages.
Ideally most would be toilet trained by 4. But you can't possibly know whether it's lazy parenting or not if they aren't.
Additional needs aren't all clear cut either. You can't just assume.

Be nice if we could all be a bit kinder and more supportive to each other instead of making snap judgements.

She’s 2. You are not a better parent because your child was toilet trained at 1 1/2. I hope your friend is able to dismiss your judgment of her…

Our child went to the toilet when they wanted how on earth is that neglect?

And who gets to decide if there's enough 'evidence' to excuse a family from being deemed "lazy", "neglectful", or whatever else?

With waiting lists and referral processes as they are, many children with additional needs and disabilities won't even have had their initial assessments by the time they're 4, and could still be years off getting a diagnosis and practical support (if any is even available).

My child is 7 and still in nappies at night (fine during the day). Comments like yours make me feel more shit and useless than I already do. Thanks.

Lord I hope you don't go on about this to her! I'm.sure she knows her own child.

Mine was 3.5.(speech delay if that makes any difference) and nursery were pretty chill about it. I did want to get some headroom between potty training and starting school as he is a summer baby..He won't be dry at night for ages probably but who cares? It's not a reflection on me as a parent.

Last year, I think it was, the Scottish media reported that the Scottish Government expected schools to work with parents to help with toilet training.

In the late 1990s, part of my secondary school senior teacher remit was primary liaison. Even at that time, my primary colleagues told me that there was an upsurge of pupils arriving in the reception class not having been toilet trained. In addition, some pupils were screaming the place down when expected to sit at a table in the dining hall or to use cutlery.

A friend who was a nurse theorised that parents have become much more laid back because disposable nappies and pull-ups lessen the urgency to toilet train children.

ETA To make it clear, I'm not talking about children with SEN or specific physical problems.

Not being dry at night is completely normal for much longer. But I would certainly expect parents to have had a good go at toilet training before the child is 4 for daytimes. And if it doesn’t work, it doesn’t. For most, it will be fine by then.

Too many parents are lazy and spend all day looking at their phones instead of actually parenting. There's no other reason for an increase in children starting school not toilet trained.

It's not so much not being successful, as not trying.

There will be some cases where there are issues, whether anyone knows what they are, but the parents are trying and it doesn't work.

Not even trying is neglectful.

I do think there are a number of things that have dovetailed that mean people are struggling more with this. I think over the past 10 or 15 years there has been some bad advice given to parents around training, and also some social changes around work and childcare, plus isolation from COVID, have left some parents without the skills to do it.

In particular some of the child-led attachment stuff, and the idea that it is better to wait until later, and that it will happen naturally when the child is ready, has really screwed some people up.

I think the point was "no intention of starting." Not that she hasn't mastered it at 2.

I understand that some posters are upset that people are being judgemental.

It has always been the case that some children have difficulty with bedwetting or occasional accidents - that's not what my primary colleagues have been talking about. They're seeing more and more children coming into primary where the parents are expecting someone else to do the job of basic parenting - including toilet training - for them.

I've seen this in my own family. My late husband was appalled that his young granddaughter was being allowed just to grab at food instead of using cutlery.

On one memorable occasion, we were out at a restaurant and her parents allowed her to have a Cadbury's Creme Egg at actual the dinner table. She had a coughing fit (thinking about it, she must have been choking) and coughed the damned thing right onto my plate. Her mother smiled benignly.

As part of her contract/relocation package, the mother's firm paid for her daughter to attend a private school. The parents later commented that the school had taught their child to have "beautiful manners". They were less than pleased when DH commented "Is that not your job?"

Yes, I think this is true. And diaper technology (lol) has really improved, so modern diapers can be kept on a long time before they are uncomfortable.

Pull ups haven't done people many real favours either. They can be helpful if used very selectively, especially for night wetting which has always taken longer for some children. But when they are used during training, which is very common, IMO in many cases they screw up the attempts. Kids are used to the feel of peeing in the diaper and don't mind it - they have little internal motive to train when they stay feeling dry and may not really even notice they are wet, and it makes it easy for parents to not pay close attention and miss an "accident".

1. is parent actively using strategies to toilet train? But child isn’t having consistent success?
2. Is parent simply using nappies and thinking child will at some point understand, without information and encouragement that they should start wearing underpants and using a toilet.

Potty training success can require parent planning, constant supervision & structuring days to focus on just toilet and motivation.

Some parents do not read or seek advice or instructions about how to teach child various life skills - toilets, shoe laces, cutting food, manners, reading, brushing teeth … not sure if it never occurs to them that behaviors are taught, or they think child figures it when ready or something else.

Potty trading “wet feel” pull-ups are commonly available. They feel wet, went wet. Many kind of training pants available. Cloth, re-usable and disposable.

That's exactly the point that my friend made during the conversation "The children don't have the discomfort of a wet bottom, so don't have the incentive to learn to use a toilet."

Is there some sort of epidemic of parents not even bothering to try toilet training? If that’s what the OP is suggesting, I’d love to see a bit of evidence.

Oh come on everyone getting offended and saying ‘What about SEN?’! Pretty sure the poster means parents who haven’t even attempted potty training by the time the child is 4 years old, not those who have tried and the child hasn’t succeeded, that’s obviously different.

This report mentions the impact of later toilet training.

https://ihv.org.uk/news-and-views/voices/toilet-trouble-supporting-the-1-in-4-children-starting-school-not-toilet-trained/

@PithyNavyViewer Maybe, but what the fuck has it got to do with you?
HTH