To think that “mental load” is just another way to moan about normal adult life?

[ByNimbleCrow]

Everyone has responsibilities. Why do women act like keeping track of household tasks is some unique burden?

This is so true. The key thing about the mental load when you have children - someone has to do these things, or the children are affected. This applies to necessary things (vaccinations, dentist appointments) all the way down to ‘minor’ things like remembering to rsvp to a party they’re invited to - you forget, the parent of the birthday child assumes you can’t attend, your child misses out. So saying that ‘he’d have to take responsibility’ ignores the fact that to a lot of men, these things are not important to them, for whatever reason. And if you know that your partner won’t ever think of these things, you end up being the one dealing with them, and while individually these tasks don’t take much time, they all add up.

And I think that @ByNimbleCrow not having children is significant to this discussion because they don’t realise (and neither did I, pre kids) how much more there is to do and how (for a variety of reasons) women end up being responsible.

it is more mental load though!

I am not really getting your point OP. You’re saying it’s just life.

Yes it is. Doesn’t make it any less draining.

I think actually yes, in many cases it is an inhererent gendered struggle. The patriarchal society we live in is set up for women to take on the bulk of child care/domestic responsibilities. This means that in a traditional family setup, the male party is responsible for “normal adulting,” whilst the female party is responsible for her own “adulting,” plus thinking for however many children they have, maintaining relationships with friends/family, domestic chores, planning birthdays, christmasses, scheduling all the appointments, remembering all the sports days/field trips/non uniform days, arranging all the play dates, making sure uniform is clean, attending parents evenings, buying leaving gifts for work colleagues, etc etc… (I appreciate of course this isn’t every single family)
With respect, my life was nice and straightforward when it was just the two of us, each happily completing our “adulting” responsibilities, but now I would say there is a definite mental load attached to managing a household… maybe come back to us when you are “adulting” for 5 people instead of 1

It's posts like this that keep me coming back to MN when I know I really shouldn't!

Navigating the shop.

Priceless!

Mental load is having to ask your partner to do stuff, rather than them just doing the thing. What’s the problem, they say, all you has to do was ask 🤷‍♀️.

In households you have a mess threshold and often the man has a lower one. They also often seem to have a lower ‘is my child ok?’ threshold. This must be coming from the way we raise girls and boys as it can’t all just be personality type. I’m generalising of course, I know some great partners and fathers.

Out of all my married friends who do professional jobs, the woman has done way way more of the mental load since having kids. Before kids their housework/lifework split was fairly equal.

I'm unique among them in that my DH always did nearly all the housework and mental load before we had kids. Now we have DC it's like 60/40 him doing more. We both have professional jobs.

I don't know why more couples don't split things equally once kids come. You end up with most women being responsible for the mental load of like 4/5 people. It's grossly unfair.

I would say though OP, in my experience most relationships I know have been pretty equal in splitting out the mental load pre kids. So I would re-evaluate how you feel about this post kids and see what your opinion is then. Pregnancy/childbirth/breast feeding etc is inherently unequal, and taxing on the mother more, and I think a lot of family inequality around the mental load starts there.

It’s an interesting discussion. My ex was all for sharing all responsibilities pre children and ‘adulting’ but once they came along was unable to pick up any more and actually did less despite me trying to make it balanced. Needless to say that’s why he is now an ex!

Now most mothers work and for many they take on all the default parent tasks. Working in many schools I can say that it is very rare that the father is the first emergency contact for example.

She forgot to mention putting her shoes on, bringing her keys and remembering to breathe throughout.

Your marriage will be as sexist as the man you marry. If you choose to marry a decent man, the mental load will be shared. If you choose to marry a dickhead the mental load will not be shared.

@Parker231 I think it's a bit facetious to pretend the burden of caring for a baby falls equally on the man and woman.

Oh God! You're right!

I use to make my DH, appointment dr,dentist and hair cut! Then put a reminder on calendar.
Now I make him make them himself and he still tells me and expects me to put in my phone and remind him!! I told him he has his own phone and can remind himself!
The adult children are the same, it’s like I’ve told my Mum so I can just not bother to remember.

Be careful, you'll get told off for saying that

Fully braced!

I am responsible for working and earning enough money to keep a roof over the heads of 4 adults and pay nearly all the bills (adult dc take care of a couple of the bills. I also do the cooking, cleaning, laundry, gardening, house renovation (dc do help out with the house stuff) and deal with all the legal stuff (of which there is plenty of companies who want money out of you for BS reasons and you have to fight them in court.
Ombudsmen are useless if companies just ignore their findings

2 adult children with SEN’s where they might be capable of going to work and they do help out financially and physically. But sometimes I have to have input into their lives to guide them so I feel I always need to have some input into what they are doing. The other has agoraphobia and we all think dementia but a diagnosis would involve them leaving the house. So I still have to make sure everything is in the house for all circumstances

Add to that I have ADHD that doesn’t go away even if I take the highest dosage of meds

How many people have all that on their plate

Then sort it out. It strikes me as many woman just prefer moaning about it.

And a lot of it is the ridiculous anyway e.g whinging about having to buy cards and presents for his family. Why on earth do it? I couldn't care less whether or not my husband sends his family presents. Not my problem.

This. 💯

@Lencten I totally agree, depends on the child. Two of mine are ND and while they are very good considering their diagnosis, they are harder work than other kids and early childhood was significantly more difficult. Then there were all the extra appointments not to mention constant stress. Now as teens and pre teens now life is fairly easy thankfully but for many people the teen years are extremely difficult.

Yes. This!

I worked in a very stressful demanding job three days a week post mat leave. STBXH worked over full time hours but by choice - working on projects he had chosen because he fancied it, saying they would make money/more money in the future. (they never did, I was always the main earner and provided financial stability).

At the end of a week he once said to me ‘why are you so tired, you have had two days off’ and I agreed and said I didn’t know. It was only when I read more about the mental load and emotional labour that I realised why I was so tired. He worked the hours of his choosing then would ‘help’ with other stuff. Meanwhile I held everything together. All the planning, cleaning etc. I was always the one managing my own emotions in the face of him and the kids dysregulating and stripping. he’d do some cooking and washing up and laundry. He’d make tons of mess. Never cleaned unless asked.

When he dropped to two days a week I did the same. I left him to do the mental load and the bulk of domestic stuff. Can’t rely on him to do the emotional labour he is too volatile. I just ‘helped’ with domestic stuff…and oh my god the difference in my stress levels. I finally had headspace to figure out what I wanted to do. What I like. I now volunteer and have taken up a hobby.

I do DIY tasks even if the daily grind still needs doing - which is what he used to do - which is far more stimulating than the constant and endless daily grind activities. Far more satisfying.

I can honestly say that working, helping out with the domestic stuff and doing jobs like mowing the lawn, pressure washing the patio etc is far far more enjoyable and far less stressful. Don’t be fooled by the ‘but he does the DIY’ trope. That is not equivalent to the endless monotony of domestic chores.

Of course he hates doing domestic chores so has taken on more work now so I am forced back into domestic servitude. Hence STBX. Well that and he’s verbally abusive.

But, I can tell you 100 that ‘helping with household chores and child care’ even if you spend the same amount of time working is much less draining and that doing the ‘big jobs’ like DIY and gardening are harder physically but much more rewarding - more to show for it and the impact lasts longer, you get more acknowledgment and it’s less mind numbing and soul destroying with the ‘I’ve just washed up and suddenly there are more pots on the side’ feeling.

It is a tricky one though I would say mental load in terms of house/marriage is split fairly evenly with each of us having our roles suited to our skill set. I manage paying the bills for example he manages getting the right deals for the bills.

Kids is different we have 2 teenagers at 2 different schools and each of them comes with 2/3 school apps and school emails etc and splitting it is hard and the implications of missing something is tricky - so I take it (partly because I want to) and that too has advantages and disadvantages! Teenagers as it turns out have quite a lot of admin! DD though is very much at the point of working with me and taking it on herself

It's not always the tasks themselves, it's the feeling of always being the responsible adult and never having a break from being on the ball. Run out of Calpol, you're the one who remembers to get it. Child needs to go to A&E, you're the one who goes. Dentist or doctors appointment needs booking, child probably goes to your dentist so you book it and take them.

Holiday needs planning and time needs booking off, probably your job to remember. Health visitor wants to do a 9-12 month review so they text you not dad. Same with vaccines. Hospital wants to book your kid an appointment, calls you not dad etc etc. Kids feet need measuring, new clothes in a size up need buying, this falls to mum usually. Kid is sick, nursery calls you. Everything down to remembering to cut the kids nails and clean their ears is completely forgettable for so many men. Honestly I didn't feel the mental load before I had kids and now I understand.

Are you a man? 😂
I’m happy to do all cleaning, cooking, housework and childcare but if you want me to also work full time and pay 50/50, then you can bloody well do your share too.
One of the many reasons I will stay single from now. I’d rather do it alone than have to look after a lazy lump aswell.

The struggle is real