She doesn’t know any mums that are happy

[Yousaiditnotme]

Did anyone hear/see Chappell Roan’s podcast about not wanting kids?
She was saying how all her friends with kids were just living in hell, how she doesn’t see anyone happy with kids, how there’s no light in their eyes etc.

I thought it was interesting, any thoughts?

There are countless whiny, self-pitying mummy blogs/bloggers, but don’t believe I’ve ever seen a woe-is-me blog by a childfree woman.

Says a lot.

I mean, I would temper those comments slightly but, in the main, I'm inclined to agree, especially with reference to the 'light going out'.
Why that happens I'm not sure but I've seen it in pretty much all of my friends who've had kids. I'm 45 and childfree by choice - zero regrets about that decision.

@TheHerboriste Surely some people blog about their problems/ struggles/unhappiness that are completely unrelated to whether they have children or not?

Full disclosure that I'm not a blog follower, but I can't believe that only people with children write woe-is-me type blogs. Happy to be corrected, but it just seems unlikely!

I have a small baby and a 2 year old and I can see why from the outside it would appear my light has gone out but it hasn’t. Being a Mum is by far the best thing in my life, I’m the happiest I’ve ever been and it has motivated me in a way nothing else has. Being a Mum isn’t for everyone but I don’t have any friends who regret becoming a Mum and I can’t wait to have another.

Nope. I don't agree with you at all.

Why didn’t you stop at one then…? I can’t imagine three children is easy in the best of circumstances.

Admitting you regret your children is still a huge societal taboo though, so very few (if any) people are actually going to say that out loud.

I think it’s harder now because if you want time off with your baby society frowns on you not being productive enough. So many mothers are working because they are expected/no choice to rather than wanting to and are doing a full days work on broken sleep. They are exhausted. I think there are more single mums these days too as it’s easier than ever for the man to walk away. (Yes, I know some mums have great careers they need to stick at and it isn’t always the dad that walks away, but I’m talking about majorities).

I enjoyed being a parent to young children and I’m enjoying being a parent to adult children now. For me it has been a worthwhile life choice.

So you doubt every Mum you meet that states they are happy to have had children? Why?

Equally, if it is such a taboo subject why have posters on this thread stated that all their friends hate motherhood, funny thing to admit to begin with, particularly unusual to only know Mums that regret becoming Mums!

That’s not what I said at all.

PP said she doesn’t know a single mum who regrets having children - my point was that as it’s still such a taboo to admit that, those who do are hardly going to say it out loud.

Admitting you hate motherhood on an anonymous internet forum is very different to saying it out loud to your friends and family.

What's wrong with heart over head decisions, genuine, inate decisions are some of the best I've ever made including having children!

Chappell Roan isn't just speaking as a successful young artist, she's also speaking as a lesbian who had a conservative American upbringing. She's pushing back against a very insidious and overwhelming tradition here and I applaud her.

I'm child-free and it sure feels like all parents are miserable sometimes, because almost every mum or dad I know loves to do nothing more than vent about how miserable and tiring parenting is and how I must really enjoy my life of freedom and sleep and spontaneity and hedonism. I never know what to say. Um, yes I do enjoy my life. I arranged it like this specifically for those reasons. It's great! Every child-free by choice person I know is blissfully content.

I don't really assume parents are miserable because they made their choice so I assume on some level they're enjoying the life they wanted. But they're the ones telling me what a slog it is!

Have you not read the many heartbreaking posts on MN from women who have children with alcoholics, drug addicts or abusive men? I have.

There ars depressingly far too many on mumsnet from women trapped in relationships with their sperm donors. Heart over head decisions in these cases just end up with misery all around.

Part of that is getting older though isn't it? One of my friends once said I'd lost my spark, I asked what they meant and they said i didn't do things i loved as much anymore like rugby, clubbing etc- but I thought a lot of women in their 30s grow out of those things anyway (still love rugby but my body doesn't!). She also said because I didn't spend as much on my appearance whereas I'd always spent loads on having my hair coloured, shopping the latest trends etc; and she's right I didn't feel the need any longer but I personally wouldn't say its because I didn't care about myself anymore, I just felt more content with myself and my body. Probably admittedly did glaze over as she talked about the men she was chatting to online because frankly didn't have as much energy to pretend to be bothered. She's now happily settled and happily childfree and by her criteria has also lost her spark as she prioritises spending money on her home, time with her partner and hates the thought of clubbing with a bunch of 18 year olds.

Not saying it doesn't happen, of course people change (for better or for worse) when they have children as it's a huge life change (again, for better or for worse)- but adults go through lots of other things that influence this too.

Some years ago I looked into monetized blog writing and the truth is, writing about parenting is much more likely to generate views, therefore money. People like the blogs about everyday parenting struggles, it's relatable if you are a parent. It isn't so much that only parents write woe-is-me type blogs, it's just those types of blogs are more prolific because it's where the money is. It's a lot harder to get interest if your woe-is-me blog isn't linked to key search topics like parenting.

Not one challenge of being a parent - even in the rough days of baby colic or more recently dealing with some teenage cheek - is anything like as bad as the misery of infertility and mcs for me. I am very fortunate indeed.

When it comes to creating an actual human life, I’d say there was a massive amount wrong with just following your heart 😬

But then the more I read these threads, the more it becomes apparent that some people just want children and will do whatever it takes to have them, regardless of the consequences.

It often seems to me that those who don’t want kids put more thought and logic into it than those who do - which comes back to my earlier post about whether a lot of it is hormonal and/or biological.

But whenever you say that, you’re criticised for being sexist or for thinking women are stupid - however I do think our biological urges shouldn’t be overlooked - I remember feeling incredibly broody in my twenties even though I can’t personally think of anything worse than children. That urge was so incredibly strong even so.

Why would a decision made without involving your brain be in any way more genuine than one arrived at on the basis of careful thinking? Especially when it comes to creating a whole new person and raising them to independence!

I think people are more likely to seek advice, solace and some sort of acceptance online if they're struggling too; a blog about how wonderful it is probably wouldn't be overly well received by those most likely to view it. Same with anything really, generally people who are content and happy are less likely to be posting about it online, they're more likely to be cracking on in the real world.

It often seems to me that those who don’t want kids put more thought and logic into it than those who do - which comes back to my earlier post about whether a lot of it is hormonal and/or biological.

I do agree with this, even though technically child free is the human default and it makes sense for people to carefully consider and make a conscious decision to have children, seems like people choosing to remain child free often take it more seriously. You see it on here and in real life plenty- shitty living conditions ie too small a house/fuck all financial stability and/or a useless partner yet they go on to have more children because they want to which is selfish.

Being a parent is hard so if a childless woman sees that and thinks 'nope, not for me!' then that's ok. Not everyone has to be a parent. Better to not have kids then end up with kids and regret.

This is probably what people say when they need reasons and justifications for preferred choices. Its like the fable the fox and the grapes. As a happy mum I could do the same and say childfree people are missing out on the joys but they will have other joys hopefully. If I had my time again, I would do things exactly the same. I love being a mum of 3.

@faerietales it is taboo but on the whole my friends talk about how much they want a third but can’t afford it and so I don’t think any of them hate or regret becoming a Mum and are just too scared to say. We’re also totally open about the shit parts of motherhood like mastitis and the fact I can’t currently wear a proper bra (probably outwardly adds to it appearing my light has gone out when it hasn’t) without sugarcoating things.

One friend look totally horrified at my plans for a third and hated the baby stage with a passion, she never sugar coated it. If anything I watch what I say around my childfree friends but I don’t know anybody my age who’s child free by choice - I appreciate many women are.

Agree, it's confirmation bias. Also I don't go on and on about how wonderful my DC are to people. You're naturally more likely to say the negatives.

Absolutely this. It’s proof of their virility. I saw a gender reveal on YouTube. After the blue balloons were released the father ripped off his shirt to reveal a t shirt emblazoned with the words “real men make twins”. It’s women who make twins.