She doesn’t know any mums that are happy

[Yousaiditnotme]

Did anyone hear/see Chappell Roan’s podcast about not wanting kids?
She was saying how all her friends with kids were just living in hell, how she doesn’t see anyone happy with kids, how there’s no light in their eyes etc.

I thought it was interesting, any thoughts?

I think a lot of it stems from the idea that motherhood is the pinnacle of womanhood. Women are sold a lie that they can only be truly satisfied if they achieve this, it's often a two-for-one alongside the lie of "you can have it all". So women go into motherhood and they quickly realise that it's not all rosy-cheeked infants who sleep 10 hours a night and slot right into your life while your figure pings straight back and your career carries on unimpeded by the nine month break and your new requirement to work around whatever childcare you have.

It's hard, a lot of people do struggle, and some of them don't cope in healthy ways. I find that those who make being "mum" their entire personality without retaining at least some semblance of their own personhood are the one who are struggling the most. From reading comments online, I'm also finding that they're the ones most up in arms about Chappell Roan's comments as if any non-specific criticism of motherhood is a personal attack on the choice they made.

Ultimately there are a thousand different ways to live you life and they're all equally valid, if you're confident in your choices then you don't need to seek validation for them by pushing the narrative that your way is the only way that is valid.

Having my own children made me more staunch in my belief that parenthood isn't for everyone and that it should be more socially acceptable for people - especially women - to say "thanks but no thanks" and be child-free by choice.

If you don’t want kids - don’t have them. But don’t use my rant as a parent (which I’m very entitled to) to make motherhood sound like hell.

That’s like me saying every married person has the joy sucked out of their lives so I won’t get married. Or everyone that works 9-5 looks so tired and miserable so I’ll become an entrepreneur. It’s kind of insulting to those who have picked that lifestyle choice and I’m finding this “I feel sorry for parents” narrative from those that are judgy patronising.

I love motherhood - absolutely love love the days when it’s family, kids and I just get to be … what makes parenting hard is societal pressures - for instance plenty of men love having kids but arnt anways burdened with the responsibilities in the same way women are - but I admit it’s not for everyone. Not all parents are miserable. Some of us do a kick ass job balancing it all.

I think the light out of the eyes is just exhaustion 😂

I hated my life before my kids. I'm much happier now.
For me it's just the exhaustion. If I actually got sleep everything would feel a lot easier to navigate.

But I think if you had a decent life built prior, hobbies, friends ect. I think the change with kids would be hard as you'd have things to miss and reminisce to and draw comparsions.

But for me everything has got better with kids. Oddly my job too, I guess it's inadvertently built a confidence and acceptance of my flaws, a proactive to implement change behaviour which has filtered into all aspects of my life.

I think it’s hard because if you gush about how amazing having a child is, somehow people think you’re just a mum now and lost into motherhood.

If you talk about the hard parts it’s probably more relatable and you probably seem more like your old self.

I find the light in my eyes has gone as everyday I have two children that are higher priorities. When I meet up with child free friends they have had the morning to shower, dress, put makeup on, eat, drink hot coffee etc with no interruptions and having had a full nights sleep. These are now luxuries! No wonder they think the light in my eyes has gone.

Me too! I have one dd who's 13 and love it. I've enjoyed most stages of being a mum to her so far.

Also, to add to this debate, I do think it's trendy at the moment to say you hate having kids/how hard it is, and not so trendy to say it's brilliant.

Personally - I haven't seen any correlation with how much people "want" kids and how much they enjoy it. I know some people resolutely childfree who accidentally fall pregnant and then absolutely love parenthood. Ditto people who've "always wanted kids" and on having them discover they hate it.

It's annoying really because it'd be better if everyone could glimpse a future of them with kids and then make a choice. As it is, you have to make a leap of faith to have kids.

Personally though, it's been better than I ever could have imagined, and I wish someone had told me that before I had them. Because when you don't have kids, all you have are the negative stories!

Well I had my 2 children late in life so had over 20yrs of child free adulthood to enjoy. I had a great time and was certainly happy. I was a bit judgy about parents too and couldn't imagine their life could be anywhere near as fun as mine!

I look back and laugh at myself now, my kids are 7 and 4 and the absolute joy and happiness they bring into my life doesn't compare with anything I did child free tbh. I also do have a full and challenging career.

I do think there's an element of you just can't understand what you've never experienced.

That's just so offensive & patronising. I've known since my early 20s i didn't want children. It's 100% been a choice MY choice. It's not crept up on me and it's not something I pretend because secretly I'm heartbroken

I would have hated to have children. I'm an absolutely brilliant Auntie but that's all I've ever wanted from children

My friends didn't have kids but I was def on her mindset - accidently got pregnant with my eldest and the rest is history I absolutely adore them (had another) and life has never been better!
In many years she may have that same awakening, or not 😂 I feel its definitely a thing some people have to experience. Until I held my own child I never understood mothers. Time may, or may not, come for this lady!

I have a baby and I have 2 close friends who don't want babies. The problem is I cannot gush about my baby to those particular friends without causing offence

I think that's really sad that you do feel that way. I've never wanted children but I've always loved seeing and hearing about my close friends children. I love baby cuddles and do actually like children - so long as they're other people's. I'd have hated to think because of my choices my friends couldn't share some of the joys of theirs

All jobs and hobbies have their horror moments, their dreary days, their contented hum drum and their sheer joy moments.

Parenthood is all of those things sometimes; the chosen childfree lives of some are never perfect either.

We have to appreciate and respect the choices people make and that people often don't get to choose..but have to cope and get on with life anyway.

Many of the people closest to me didn't choose the path that they walk. One has twins, another lost baby after baby, one was infertile, another had successful IVF, and some not - you never really know.

You only get one life; people who don't want to parent are due respect equal to the sleep deprived mothers and fathers of multiples.

Well, I have four children and would have another if we could afford it/was a bit younger. There are billions of women in the world. Some will have kids and regret it, some won't have children and will regret it and plenty will be happy with the decision they made. Each to their own really.

@Redglitter

Best kind of friend! Sorry just had to say. I was work party work party and accidentally got pregnant and a lot of people didn't want to hear it. Even one close friend didn't want to hear about my kid for years then she had hers and its all she can bang on about. The irony.
I have 6 amazing close thick as thieves childless friends who embraced my kids as family and I can't express the gratitude I have for them. After so many people I thought were my friends just disappeared. Reality is when I had a baby the first 6 months were literally baby life nothing else. Then stresses of weaning etc. They patiently supported and listened until I had breathing space to do our hobbies and be me again a bit more. They're so dear to me and your comment just reminded me how much I love these people. The gratitude I have all these years later for their interest in my life (as i do have in theirs!). Ah.

Edit: forgot to quote someone!

I had a couple of horrendous days with my baby and thought I hated him it was so hard… and then he smiled at me. Never felt happiness like that…and that’s motherhood. It can be so crap and hard but so amazing. You’re only ever as happy as your unhappiest child.

She will come to regret it when she realises it’s too late and she’s wasted her life on the wrong things.

Of course she and others like her will protest otherwise, but the realisation will come.

What nonsense. I've known since I was a teenager that I didn't want kids. People would say to me "you'll change your mind when you're older" I haven't, I'm 58 now and have never wavered on that. No one needs to feel sorry for us or come out with the rubbish that we protest too much as we must secretly regret our decision 🙄 I promise you childfree by choice people are very happy.

No light in their eyes just sounds so misogynistic.

I am so much happier since having kids.

I dont have kids of my own through choice. I know some women who make motherhood seem amazing and seems so natural to them and others who make it seem like the most horrendous thing and I think thank god I didnt go down that route. Maybe she just happens to know more of the second type.

This is so spot on. I never gush about the positives with childless people as experience was taught me they don’t like it or don’t understand it. Just like I wouldn’t bang on about how wonderful my house is to a homeless person.

I decided not to have kids after watching how hard it's been on friends and relatives. Stunned by how many men haven't stepped up, or have just walked out when kids were little. Women are all working full-time or close to it then running household and raising children something close to single handedly. It's been grim. I'm 43 and so glad I've swerved it. I'm sure countless women have 50 50 partnerships in child raising. Perhaps my circle is unlucky but I only know two out of 20 plus women I'm close enough to discuss it with.

And there we have it. The realisation will come, however late.

You think you’re happy, but you cannot understand true happiness until you’ve had kids.

OK 🤣 You keep telling yourself that.

Tbf any of my friends who dont have children I think wouldve had children if they had met a longterm partner. They're now in their mid 30s with no partner but I think if they did meet someone soon they probably will have kids. They all wanted children when we were younger and love children, but their life ended up differently than they imagined. My other friends without children want one eventually but just not right now for various reasons eg job, still renting etc
So for me all the childless people I know currently do want children it's just circumstance has led them to not have them and if circumstances were different they would.
I get that some people are happy without children but its not unreasonable or patronising to suggest that many people have found they've reached an age in life where having children is unlikely so they move on and still make a great life. For me it's been financial or social reasons that have held my friends back from having children, not really a conscious choice they've made.

I wouldn’t say I’m happy and I love my kid more than anything in the world. The level of sacrifice of my own time and peace of mind has not been great for me. Her dad is very hands on before anyone asks but we have no family etc near by. Parental burnout is real.

I think people can be very happy with children and without as well. But the pressures of parenting are real.