She doesn’t know any mums that are happy

[Yousaiditnotme]

Did anyone hear/see Chappell Roan’s podcast about not wanting kids?
She was saying how all her friends with kids were just living in hell, how she doesn’t see anyone happy with kids, how there’s no light in their eyes etc.

I thought it was interesting, any thoughts?

I think if you're a relatively happy and content person you will be happy with whatever outcome. If you're high on the anxiety scale, depressive scale, etc, you will probably have a tough time either way. That's my view anyway from my vantage point of not having kids, and having a mixed bag group of friends and siblings who do/don't.

For the first two years I probably looked a bit dead behind the eyes as DS was an awful sleeper and we had no support network.

Since then though we have found parenting a joy and DS is such an easy child. Watching him grow up and become this amazing person is the greatest joy of my life and I still have plenty of time for myself.

Would do it all again a million times over.

What rubbish. Many of my friends, now well past child rearing age, are delighted with the fact they never had children and love the life they have. Meanwhile, I know many who've had them, who, whilst they adore them and would never be without them, have realised that even when the kids are adults it's still a lifetime of worry stress and expense - and given another life to do over would be childless.

Obviously if she doesn't want children she shouldn't have any. Celebrities like making controversial or dramatic statements and announcing their (latest) stance on things though. In a few years' time she'll probably be posting about how magical she's finding motherhood.

Most of my friends with children are some level of miserable to be honest. And dare I say they look it, they have aged far faster than those of us in our group who chose not to.

I've found having children to be among the most exciting and joyful adventures that's available in life. It won't be for everyone but I expect the majority who find it incredibly rewarding and meaningful don't spend their their time challenging the preconceived notions of those who have built deep prejudices about it.

I’ve loved having children- only thing I’d change if I could is to have more of them- but there are definitely times when it’s hard and exhausting and very much type 2 fun. But there it is- most things that are worth doing have difficult moments, whether that’s parenthood or a career in music.

Also I think it’s very funny that someone would interview Chappell Roan and ask her whether she’s planning to have kids. She’s young, massively successful, has talked openly about the overwhelming nature of sudden success and fame- it would be surprising if she was also planning a family at this moment, and now her off the cuff answer (which I imagine was intended to be sympathetic to the difficulties of motherhood) is being used as a stick to beat her (not on here particularly but more broadly). Women can’t win.

She's obviously happy with the decision she's made. Child rearing isn't for everyone. It's hard and paired with facing everything thing else life throws at you it can feel almost impossible. I would have liked if it was a bit easier but i am happy with my life.

You are projecting massively.

Is it really beyond the bounds of your imagination that not all women are broody or maternal?

More interestingly, those of my friends who haven't had children have been married for a long time to their first spouse (none of my friends without children will see 60 again).

I love being a parent, it makes me happy. It is bloody hard because I'm sick and have 3 SN kids and an abusive ex, but I'm still happy and I still love being a mum. It's not for everyone, but I know lots of mums who are happy they're mums. They might simultaneously be unhappy about the useless arse they married or finding parenting tough, that's not the same as being unhappy being a parent.

The "wrong things" for me would be children.

It's not one size fits all.

I imagine she's seeing a lot of women with young kids which is the physical hardest and wearing times.
She's not using critical thinking skills.

People who see me with my kids probably think I'm struggling more than I am, because when it gets to the weekend my kids don't like to share me!

So if I'm home or out by myself with my kids we tend to have a nice, calm, even "joyful" time. But if a childless friend (ie someone who doesn't bring their own mini entertainers with them) enters that mix, they often see my kids being a bit whiny and demanding, and they see me getting flustered trying to manage the kids' needs without being rude to the guest.

So basically, people without kids don't often get to witness the best bits of being a parent.

It certainly isn't and we shouldn't push that narrative because the end result is someone who shouldn't have kids having kids. I don't mean you by the shouldn't, I'm talking parents who are abusive like my mum. She shouldn't have had kids and the way she left I think she figured that out but 10 years to late. 50 years ago having kids was pretty much expected.

I think it will make a happier world if we accept that people want different things and that different life choices are just as valid and raise our kids to really think about if they want kids and not just have them because that's the societal expectation. My DD sometimes says she wants to be a mum and sometimes says she's never having kids and I always give her the same type of response, that thats her choice, having kids or not is fine by me.

That’s true. Equally, people who are genuinely happy being parents don’t bang on about feeling sorry for their friends who have “missed out”.

I think many child-free by choice people think parents looks very miserable. She was asked, she answered. I don’t think it’s insulting.

I hear ya! Life with my one is quite enjoyable. Everything is so much more peaceful and happy. For the most part, we just flow 😊

When I think about the parents I know, I do know more who are unhappy rather than happy, a few who want to end their marriage, but can’t afford to do so because they have children, or don’t want to spend half of the week without their children. I would have thought the ones who are up in arms about the comment are actually up in arms as it shines a bit of truth on their situation, but they don’t want to admit it.

I do find the parents who say you don’t know happiness until you have children are usually using their children as an emotional crutch, and either raise emotionally stunted children, or children who realise as young adults that they have essentially been emotionally abused so they keep a very distinct distance from their parents.

I've noticed this more with SAHM. Obviously I'm not talking about this from a general population level, but my friends, close friends who choose the SAHM path - there is a light that has gone. I think it's because there's just not respite from it and perhaps it's not just the kids and being a parent - it's the way some are treated differently by husbands, extended family and society. It's very easy to take someone for granted when they're 'always there at home' and you feel that.

The Mum's I know who are still working 3 or more days and 2 or more days outside of the home - they seem largely the same people.

On the one hand, where I used to love working - I've definitely developed a 'could care less' attitude. But being in the office? It's the one place where I'm still me. I'm not Jane's Mum. I'm the person I was before kids and I'm treated like that. My job is the only place where the pre-kid version of me still exists. I'm respected, I'm dealing with non-child related things, I'm having 'office banter', I can do what I want with my lunch hour without having to negotiate with anyone, I get time to day dream, read, listen to podcasts on my commute with a coffee. It can be bliss! Equally a wfh day when they're at nursery/school is also super bliss! My home being a quiet sanctuary again - still exists.

So for me it's not 'having children'. It's not the children themselves, it's about what you give up for them. If 24hrs a day, every single day - you get no respite - then I can see how you could become depressed, in much the same way being anyone's career 24/7 would take a natural toll.

Plus it can be so isolating. I really felt that on maternity leave. I love my baby and I was in floods of tears leaving her at nursery to go back to work, but she settled quickly in nursery and I got back into a routine and then that low level depression and feeling of isolation lifted. I look at my colleagues as part of my village. The people who take care of maiden-named me. She still exists.

Now time with my DC is precious. Weekends are a joy. Bedtime is a routine of connection, cuddles and giggles in the morning before getting up are life. If I was at home with them 24 hours a day, I don't think I'd feel that way.

I’d say it less about how chilled you are and more about the type of kid you get.

your dd sounds delightful, but many are not like that. I had a hyperactive one and it was exhausting.

I did ( and still do) love being a mum though

but just remember some people get a rougher ride than others. Also, if you have 4, chances are one of them will be trouble!

I’ve just read the Sunday With…column in the Observer magazine. This week it’s comedian Guz Khan. Under the heading Sunday Sexy Time? He says “No that died a long time ago. Welcome five children into the world and the collateral damage is that romance dies”. I found that a bit sad tbh.

I have a child free friend who says this. Is adamant every single one of her friends with kids (which is pretty much all at this point) is miserable and hates their life. That’s obviously not true but it’s how she wants to think to reinforce her decision. She has a good life, travels at the drop of the hat and complete freedom. I don’t think she regrets her choice at all but I do think she likes to think this was just to solidify it.

Chapel is also very young. Surely her friends who have children are going to have young children. Those are the trenches for most people anyway.

I’d say it less about how chilled you are and more about the type of kid you get.

And the type of person you are. Having the chaos of four children would be my worst nightmare.

Catch a grip!! You are so ignorant

Well, I was happily childfree till the age of 40, with absolutely no intention of having a child, and then I decided to have a child. 13 years on, he’s brilliant, and I’m delighted I had him, but I’m quite certain my life would be just as happy had I not. I’d have done different things, and been differently happy, just as I was before I had him. I certainly didn’t start seeing things in Technicolour, or experiencing life completely differently.