She doesn’t know any mums that are happy

[Yousaiditnotme]

Did anyone hear/see Chappell Roan’s podcast about not wanting kids?
She was saying how all her friends with kids were just living in hell, how she doesn’t see anyone happy with kids, how there’s no light in their eyes etc.

I thought it was interesting, any thoughts?

The thing with parenting is that there's no way to test out whether you'll love it or not, until you are already committed. Even if you know loads of kids and have tons of experience in childcare etc, having your own is different. So we all just have to decide to have them or not based on our best guess of what it will be like.

If you don't feel that urge to have a baby, then you are probably able to make a more dispassionate/objective choice, weighing up practical pros and cons. For those of us who just longed for a baby, our decision was maybe more emotionally/biologically driven.
Neither choice is better or worse and since people are individuals, the decision made (whichever way you go) will be the right one for some and the wrong one for others.

I do wonder though, what CR friends think about this because she doesn't have full context re their lives. Even if you know a friend really well, you can't feel what they feel, so yes, she will have seen the struggles but she won't have experienced the feeling of joy that the vast majority of people feel about their own children. You don't know what you don't know iyswim.

What utter bs

Don't be so bloody patronising

How patronising!!

I have two kids but I don’t push that on my friends who don’t or “feel sorry” for them.

I have friends who don’t want kids or a partner because they value their hobbies, travel, and financial stability. I don’t see it as a non choice. It’s a very empowered choice actually when you think about it. Society is constantly telling them to have kids but they valued other things rather than settling for any old man and having a baby. Because believe me they could have done that 10x over.

I feel sorry for the friends who’ve missed out. They dress it up as a choice but in reality it has been a non choice that crept up on them

If your friends genuinely don’t want children there’s no point in feeling sorry for them. Childfree do not believe or spend time thinking of ‘what they missed out’…because we haven’t missed out on anything. Nothing about parenting or children interests us. Not even the sweet 2am cuddles, the funny school drawings, the first time they made pancakes for mothers day, the interesting conversations as adults.

I feel sorry for the mothers who declare they didn’t know true purpose or happiness until they had children. To me they don’t see their kids as human beings but as an object to make them happy or give them something to do with their life

I follow a ‘mummy blogger’ who is British but lives in the US, and she says that having children in the US is far more isolating than in the UK.

They spend more time in their homes / gardens (I guess they have space?) and there is less of the coffee / soft play / baby group type culture that we have in the UK. Which of course is then quite lonely.

One positive to our living in small properties on a crowded island is that we tend to be able to walk around our communities, and these kinds of activities for parents exist.

There was a thread recently from a child free womsn saying all mothers hate being a mum and regret it. I wonder if some people just want to believe this. Maybe they see mums looking exhausted and stressed abd assume their lives are shit? I've found it exhausting, particularly in the early years, but I'm sooo happy being a mum!
I'm remember a very ardent anti-child friend telling me "You're looking exhausted since having children and you've lost your looks. You must regret it." Not at all.

I’m 50. When should I expect my childfree regret to kick in?

I love kids, I’m sure it’s highly rewarding being a mother. My nieces and nephews are brilliant, smart and talented. My brother loves his life. My best friend of 45 years always wanted children, had her first at 18. She’s a fantastic mum, her children are amazing. She loves her life. That doesn’t mean I have ever wanted that life for me.

People may mistake venting to friends as being unhappy.

Im really happy with how life turned out and adore my kids. Parenting is even harder than I expected, my DS additional needs make life very tough. Do I talk to friends about this? Absolutely. Am I unhappy? Absolutely not.

People aren’t encouraged to go around telling people how happy we are. People are more encouraged to complain. So if you complain about being a parent and never say how wonderful it is you would give the impressions it’s not so great.

but if she doesn’t want kids that’s her choice. I always wanted kids. I have 3 and I’m very happy. Wouldn’t change it for anything and if I could I’d have one more! She doesn’t want kids. Good for her. Doesn’t affect me at all.

This.

Also what does she define as happiness.

Doing something difficult can be fulfilling and bring happiness in the long term. In the short term it can be pretty shitty.

When you are in the trenches with a toddler who doesn't sleep it's hard and you moan. But then these the wonderful moments and you get rose tinted glasses and a sense of pride from 'look how far we've come'.

What's more annoying is that she feels the need to comment at all. Clearly there's an internal feeling that she has to justify not having children. That doesn't necessarily suggest she's as happy as she makes out either.

Why can't she just do her thing and let others do theirs.

"It's not something I wanted and I don't feel I've missed out" suffices. She doesn't have to berate women for some how making 'bad choices' to justify her own life choices.

I am literally the opposite. I came to motherhood later, and was shocked by how happy it made me and how much I enjoy it.

After career/travel oriented me had kids and loved it, a fair few friends also had kids and loved being parents.

I think it's really dependent on the person, your own circumstances (having a loving and supportive partner really does make a difference!) and the point you are in your life.

This is such a good point.

Also, if I say I've had a tough week in work -- people do not think I do not enjoy my job (I clearly do). They just think I had a hard week.

If you say, as a parent, you had a hard week... That's seen as a judgement of being a parent as a whole.

Isn't this just the other side of Chappell Roan's coin? You feel sorry for women who haven't had children because you can't imagine what it is like to not want children.

Women who don't want children don't feel that they are missing out because they are living the life they want. Why is it up to you to decide they are missing out? Stop projecting.

I was ambivalent about having children so I can see both sides.

She obviously doesn't know many mothers.
What a very strange and sad thing to say.
Fine if she doesn't want children that's her decision but to then go on and say all mothers are unhappy is ridiculous and obviously false.

I haven't listened to her so just based on the OP....

I could only have 1 child (DS11) and wanted another. I relate a little because one part of me knows DS is missing out on the ideal of a lovely playmate. But when I view the reality of everyone I know with more than one young kid at face value, all I see is double the work and constant bickering, and an extended period of the hard years that I only had to do once, and the strain and toll on their relationships.

I only see that side in them though because I obviously don't have the 'feeling' part of the love they have for their kids. The other part of me knows from experience that you can be having a really tough time but the love you feel for them overrides it all. Not in the first year maybe (for me, anyway!) but since then.

I remember someone saying to me that you don't know what life's about until you have a child and having had one, I absolutely know what they meant. That definitely doesn't mean though that you can't have a full and happy life without kids or that being a parent makes you better than someone who isn't.

I also think there are a lot of middle aged men who love their kids but are secretly unhappy.

I wouldn’t have said I was unhappy when I had young DC. But now my youngest is 17 and my social life is expanding I am definitely happier. Having adult DC is great.

My children bring me an immense level of joy that surpasses the tiredness and stress which comes with having them.

I think it's more that she can't imagine living any life other than the one she's living now. She's 27. Give it a few years for her fame to die down and people not to be worshipping at her feet and she might have a rethink. Or she might not, but her reasons for remaining childfree might change.

How do you know this? How did you know that someone isn’t happier than you are without kids? That someone who also has kids was happier without them? You don’t, you cannot possibly know about anyone else’s feelings other than your own.

This ridiculous narrative that women cannot live happy and fulfilling lives full of love without children is boring and insulting. And it will never ever fail to baffle me why people like you think women who don’t want children should have them because YOU think they’d be happier with them. Imagine being so arrogant that you think bringing an unwanted child into the world is a good idea

I wouldn't really take anything Chapel Roan says seriously. She's a daft young woman who has got very famous very quickly and is being asked for her opinions on stuff she knows nothing about.
This is the same woman who complained about fans approaching her and has recently complained about fans not approaching her anymore.

I think it's more that she can't imagine living any life other than the one she's living now.

I think most people can't do that, whether they are child free or have children TBH.

I have three. I’ve never been happier. It’s not all sunshine and rainbows but I’m far happier now than I was pre children

I feel sorry for celebs sometimes. They get asked questions in interviews and have to give some answer. Then that becomes immortalised. I talk a lot of shit. I change my mind regularly. I'm glad none of it is recorded under my own name!

But yeah, all she had to say was 'I don't think it's for me'. No need to justify it. Have kids; don't have kids.

People with children are often the worst advert for having children.

Lots of “It’s the best thing that ever happened to me” but every description they give of their lives and relationship with their kids sounds awful/sad.

Yes. She’s a 27 year old artist at the highest point of her career so far. Constant thrills and validation. A baby would not be in any way appealing! She’s projecting.

The world she’s in will have more than its share of attention seeking types who don’t do well with the sacrifices parenting requires. If she was a man she could get someone to have her child and still stay at the top of her game. Women don’t have that choice. Female artists often don’t have children or wait until much older.