Calling my unborn baby they/them

[Irish24]

I am keeping the gender a surprise and the amount of people that are confused when I refer to the baby as they/them’ is starting to aggravate me. I don’t like referring to them as ‘it’ or just ‘baby’. They/them is a word and has been going around for centuries. It also is a singular pronoun and does not always mean multiple. My friends say they can’t get their head around it. I don’t understand. I know they/them is a controversial topic these days and more people are perhaps finding out the gender. I still don’t find it confusing at all and it never even occurred to me that it would be. Anyone else experienced this or am I being over dramatic here? It’s just tiresome having to constantly explain to people, I don’t know the gender so that’s why I’m calling the baby ‘them/they’

*I am keeping the gender a surprise
Why the big deal?
She means she hasn’t found out the gender, not that she knows and is keeping it as a surprise

Thanks that makes sense now.

Yes it is. With a long history.

I think the problem is that (rather ironically) it's not the binary issue that so many people portray.

On one side you have some folk claiming that it's never appropriate and it's always just silly, and on the other you have people claiming that it's perfectly natural and doesn't ever cause any issues at all.

I think for native English speakers the truth is somewhere in the middle.

They/them can be used effectively and naturally in many conversations. However, at times, the use of they/them can sound awkward and slightly odd, and it can make it difficult to follow a conversation, especially when there are multiple people being discussed.

Eg/ "Joanna is having trouble at school as they haven't been given a timetable yet. The teachers don't have it either. They don't know when they will receive it."

Joanna uses they/them pronouns. In this example, who does the last "they" refer to? The teachers? Joanna? Could be either and it's very unclear. This is an actual real life example. They would normally be plural and therefore would more accurately be used to described her group of teachers. However, because Joanna also prefers they/them, the plural-sounding pronoun in this example could also be referring to her. However, the "they" in the first sentence is fine as we all understand it clearly refers to Joanna.

I am aware this is a shit example but a) this actually happened a couple of weeks ago and b) I'm not awake enough to think of something else 😂

Intentionally obtuse trying to turn it into a trans/non-binary thing when it really isn’t.

You walk into a coffee shop. There is an umbrella on the table.

Normal people: “Someone has left their umbrella behind.”

MNers: “Someone has left his or her umbrella behind.”

They/them is fine. I don't mind it either, but find referring to them as just baby a bit twee. For me it would have to be "the baby".

It’s used when you don’t know their gender. Which in the case of this baby, we don’t. Calling your baby ‘baby’ exclusively makes speech very clunky.

‘The baby is kicking, I really can’t wait until baby is born so I can hold baby in my arms and sing baby a lullaby. Do you think baby will have hair?’

that’s really odd. So the remaining option is always saying he/she which is just as clunky or ‘It’ which is just dehumanising and cold.

You are arguing about the factual accuracy of using they/them but then talking about your baby’s gender when what you mean is their sex. YABU.

Not true. Pick up a grammar book, ffs.

I wouldn't have thought they were trying to sound woke if that's what you're getting at, it's just easier than saying 'he or she'.

I'm with you on 'baby', though. So twee.

One person asked if I was having twins. I just said “I hope not!” It is totally normal and well established to say something like “We’re ready for their arrival/them.” In fact, “We’re ready for its arrival/it” sound clunky.

I wouldn’t find it irritating even if it was many people, though. It’s a non-issue really. If this irritates you, I’d kindly say buckle up because pregnancy and particularly parenthood comes with far more irritating behaviour from family etc.

Do people talk like this in real life? They can't do surely

This is true. 😂

I don't think you're being unreasonable at all OP, I'm also currently pregnant, we have chosen not to find out the sex and have been using they/them to refer to the baby, e.g. 'when they're here' - it feels completely natural to me! Nobody has taken this to mean that I'm having twins.

I hate referring to the baby as 'it' and using he/she makes people assume we know the sex.

Everyone saying ‘just use the baby’ - well sure sometimes, but you can only really use that once in a sentence.

e.g

How’s the baby?
Fine I think, they’ve been kicking me in the bladder all night.

You wouldn’t say ‘How’s the baby? Fine, the baby has been kicking me etc …’

Or

Shall we build the baby’s cot now?
No rush, they will be in the Moses basket for the first few months anyway.

Those sound perfectly natural to me, and I probably used them when I was pregnant (we didn’t find out the sex either and I was surprised so many people were surprised by that!) I do think they sound more natural because in each case ‘the baby’ has already been established though - as in you need an ‘antecedent’

From the OED -

Singular they has become the pronoun of choice to replace he and she in cases where the gender of the antecedent – the word the pronoun refers to – is unknown, irrelevant, or nonbinary, or where gender needs to be concealed. It’s the word we use for sentences like Everyone loves his mother.
But that’s nothing new. The Oxford English Dictionary traces singular they back to 1375, where it appears in the medieval romance William and the Werewolf. Except for the old-style language of that poem, its use of singular they to refer to an unnamed person seems very modern. Here’s the Middle English version: ‘Hastely hiȝed eche . . . þei neyȝþed so neiȝh . . . þere william & his worþi lef were liand i-fere.’ In modern English, that’s: ‘Each man hurried . . . till they drew near . . . where William and his darling were lying together.’
Since forms may exist in speech long before they’re written down, it’s likely that singular they was common even before the late fourteenth century. That makes an old form even older.

People routinely refer to gender when they mean sex. It’s not strictly correct, but you know what people mean by it and it’s totally irrelevant in the context of this discussion.

Not by those who understand the rules of English grammar

What on earth are you talking about?? The OP will use the correct gender pronouns for their child once the child is born and they know the gender. They don’t currently know what they’re having.

I'm with you OP - I use they when I'm reading a book with my grandkids because it's mostly written as he & I don't want her to think men/boys are of greater importance than girls/women.

I also use they or she when we're talking about a little bug/bird/animal etc because I don't want her world to have a higher incidence of he/him.

My dp referred to our db as baby boo.

I'd assume you were having twins, or that you were a 'pronoun person'. When I had mine we weren't told the sex and managed fine with 'the baby'. If you don't mind explaining it's not twins then you can call your baby what you like.

I don’t think ‘it’ is that dehumanising, although I see where people are coming from. I have found medical professionals will often say things like “its head” rather than “their head” - and they know the sex - and that also feels totally fine. Can’t win really as if they said he or she, they might be accused of spoiling the surprise.

I’m having my second and there’s barely time to even talk about her, let alone consider the pronouns used by those around me. Poor second child! 😂

Surely everyone would then presume she’s having a boy if she started saying he but could end up with a girl and vice versa

This is so funny - what do you mean “when pronouns were not a thing”?! Do you not use she/her? He/him? Those are pronouns! How far back did you have your children for pronouns to just.. not exist? Pre-language?