Calling my unborn baby they/them

[Irish24]

I am keeping the gender a surprise and the amount of people that are confused when I refer to the baby as they/them’ is starting to aggravate me. I don’t like referring to them as ‘it’ or just ‘baby’. They/them is a word and has been going around for centuries. It also is a singular pronoun and does not always mean multiple. My friends say they can’t get their head around it. I don’t understand. I know they/them is a controversial topic these days and more people are perhaps finding out the gender. I still don’t find it confusing at all and it never even occurred to me that it would be. Anyone else experienced this or am I being over dramatic here? It’s just tiresome having to constantly explain to people, I don’t know the gender so that’s why I’m calling the baby ‘them/they’

I had the same. Referred to the baby as they/them on occasion as didn't know the sex. Many of my colleagues (we're midwives) would then ask me if I was having twins. Then I'd have to explain that I just didn't want to refer to the baby as 'it'. Also then tried switching between referring to the baby as he or she, then people would react as if we knew what we were having which we didn't. By the by I was adamant I was having a girl and had another boy 🤣

I think you're danmed if you do and damned if you don't.

It may be jarring to you. It isn’t for lots of others and it is grammatically correct.
Nobody is going round saying ‘the baby’ or any of the names you may give them at that point in the place of pronouns.

Even if OP's friends find her use of 'they/them' jarring to their ear, it's hardly a great hardship and I doubt that they are in her company enough to make it a real issue or hardship for them.

I think that it sounds perfectly natural and one of the most vociferous posters against the use of 'they/them' for a singular baby/person, has unwittedly used 'they' to refer to the singular OP in one of her posts:

'I'm guessing you are literally saying they/them and asking others to rather than just naturally talking about the baby. Which is the problem and tedious in the extreme.
Yes that is what I sense too, given how dramatic they are being over it, hence my attention-seeking point. And it is easier to say "baby" or "it", it flows easier. It's more work imo to have to say they/them.'

It sounded so natural that this poster didn't even notice what she had done.

What part of this thread is about grammar, not transgender people do you not understand?

And no, being anti bigotry is not the same as being anti woman or having internalised misogyny. So take your insults and your obsession back to the FWR board, no one here is interested! Again! We are taking about grammar!

You brought up 'transphobia', and scolded feminists, you can't expect someone not to respond to that. You know exactly what you're doing. With that said, I'm not derailing the thread further.

No, feminists were not scolded. People misunderstanding the thread and the usage of ‘they’ were scolded.

And for what feels like the millionth time not all feminists agree with the dominant narrative on the FWR board.

This is a thread about grammar though. Singular they has a continuous usage history going back to at least the 14th century. It’s a perfectly correct and normal way to refer to an unborn baby. Stop making this something it isn’t!

The person I responded to was scolding feminists.

And if your belief is that keeping males out of female spaces is 'transphobia', you are not a feminist.

In your opinion. Feminists haven’t been scolded by anyone on here. People who let their opinions about a different issue cloud their response to a thread about grammar have been. Those are different things. As it happens some GC feminists have also pointed out that there’s nothing wrong with this usage. This isn’t about feminism or trans issues.

That said. I believe trans women are women. I believe in women’s rights. Neither of us is going to agree.

This thread is not about that. It’s about grammar.

Please quote where I scolded feminists.

I responded to someone ranting about gender woo that they were both incorrect and talking about something irrelevant. You then waded in and started ranting about pronouns in email bios, misgendering being literal violence and single sex spaces. When told I wasn't interested in that argument, and neither is anyone else because it's a fucking grammar thread so take it back to FWR where they love that shit you decided to lecture me on internalised misogyny and a declare that I hate women having basic human rights. It's fucking ridiculous.

You clearly still haven't got the message from the way you responded to @GrammarTeacher

Please do show me the quote where I specifically scolded feminists. Id love to see it.

I don’t think it’s that deep and I don’t think anyone thinks about it as much as you may think.

I think I’d used baby or bump when talking about my daughter even when I knew she was a girl, just felt like what came naturally

I find the FWR vitriol repulsive. Many of us hide the board because we don't want to see it.

You find the feminist board and feminists there fighting for our rights 'repulsive'.

And another I hate the vitriol spewed on the FWR board and don't want to see rampant transphobia = hating women having basic human rights

"Rampant transophobia" 🙄
Feminists spew 'vitriol'. You then dragged in 'transphobia' to GOAD. You know exactly what you're doing.

No. Feminists don’t. One board does. And many many feminists avoid it due to the way people speak on there.

The trans discussion had no place on this thread which is about grammar. You have your board for this debate.

Just again can I reiterate, that did not scold feminists. At most it ‘scolded’ a certain type of poster on a specific board.

ANYWAY.

The midwife at check-up looking for the heartbeat: “There it is, they were hiding from me.” Even one of the surgical team delivering my second baby asked, “What do you think they’ll be?” and I like to think they were bloody clear in advance they were delivering a single baby. There was a bit of excitement because it was the last planned section before Christmas, but mostly because it was the only surprise delivery that day – I wonder if the inability to understand “they” as referring to a single baby is down to the decline in keeping the sex a surprise? Both pregnancies I was told it’s now pretty unusual and most people find out.

I don't know any actual feminists who centre males in female only intimate spaces. Anyone who does that, is not a feminist. And those who avoid that feminist forum are not feminists either.

The trans discussion had no place on this thread which is about grammar.

Exactly! So blame the goady poster who brought up 'transphobia'. Not the one who merely responded.

Again! Such arrogance. You don’t get to define my feminism. We disagree. That should be ok. There isn’t one form of feminism anyway. You have no idea what I do to support women’s rights. My feminism is more inclusive than yours, that is all.
The poster you think is scolding feminists wasn’t the first to bring this up by the way. Most of the people refusing to grasp that ‘they’ can be singular were doing so on the basis of it being ‘woke nonsense’. They continued doing so despite proof of it being used as a singular throughout the history of literature in English.

Feminism does not 'include' males. Not ever. That's the whole point. It exists deliberately to promote females, not males. If you include males in your feminism, you are not a feminist, you're a meninist. That's it. Plain and simple.

That poster brought up 'genderwoo' and then 'transphobia' and called us feminists advocating for female only single sex spaces and for fair sport, for female only battered womens shelters 'vitrolic' and 'repulsive'. They didn't have to do that, they could have chosen not brought that up on this thread to promote their anti-feminist agenda. That is on them.

Now, thread Hid.

The 'goady posters' who first brought up trans ideology were posters that agree with you, so maybe blame them:

'Referring to your unborn baby as ‘they’ is not everyday English and it sounds like you’re either having twins, or believe your child to be gender-fluid or non binary - which isn’t your decision to make!'

'It also is a singular pronoun and does not always mean multiple
No, it fucking isn't, to the first part, yes it fucking does to 2nd part.
It's only been designated/hijackedas a term to describe someone non-binary in recent years (no judgement, fact)'

OP has been accused of being a member of the 'wokerati' by a particularly ridiculous poster. OP has expressed no opinion on the divisive trans debate.

The refusal of the FWR board to accept that some feminists disagree with them is one of the main issues with this site as far as I’m concerned and certainly why many now avoid the board or don’t want to define themselves as feminists.

I’ve been a (second wave) feminist all my adult life and I’ll die one but I’d rather drink bleach than go anywhere near FWR. It’s horrible.

Couldn't agree more

Thank fuck for that!

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

I don’t usually give in to the lure of commenting off-topic on threads, but OMG so much this ^^

I had a quick foray onto the feminist boards a few years ago, then quietly snuck back out the back door. Much of the “Feminism” I saw there was so prescriptive and dictatorial on what women could and should think and do.
“Not every choice a woman makes is a feminist choice” they kept reminding us. So what? Can’t a woman do what she wants? No, it seems we owe it to the sisterhood to behave in a certain way.

Just as controlling and restrictive as the patriarchy they’re railing against.

My point exactly. I don’t get how people can’t get their heads around it. It’s not really that difficult

You are trying to provoke stick with the subject.