To be upset a brothel has opened next door to my child's school

[OneJadeEagle]

Walking past school last week I noticed a shop next door that had been shut for ages has now turned into a 'massage' place. Curtains firmly shut, doorbell on, locked door, 'calling cards' left on the outside for people to pick up discreetly. Checked online and the gumtree ads and reviews from men leave no doubt the type of massages they are offering.

The school is a special needs school and some of the older children, whilst vulnerable with learning disabilities, do walk to school alone past the premises. The whole thing just really gives me the creeps, the idea of a bunch of creepy men being attracted to the road right by all these kids, possibly drugs etc.

Anyways I messaged the class WhatsApp to try and co-ordinate complaints to the council and the general vibe was I was overreacting. We are in a big city, there's always going to be something going on in the vicinity. Why put some ladies out of work when they're trying to earn an honest living and as long as they aren't parading into school what's the drama.

I don't know, AIBU?

What I said is a sex worker - or prostitute if you will - isn't selling her body but providing a service. She's using her body to provide that service, much like an actor or masseuse uses their body.

I said nothing about sex work being work or being like working in Tesco. I didn't even comment on the ethics of sex work. All I did was correct the disingenuous, and deliberately inflammatory, language.

There are several untrue phrases which keep coming up any time sex work is discussed:

"Selling her body" - untrue. She's selling a service. She's no more selling her body than an actor sells theirs.

"Consent cannot be bought" - wrong again. If that were true all labour would be slavery. You really think the barista wants to make your coffee?

"Poverty is akin to coercion" - once again, if that were true, the majority of workers would be classed as slaves. Would any menial worker choose to work at their job if they would have better options?

"Punters feel entitled to sex" - paying for something is the opposite of entitlement. People who are entitled take without permission. Theft. Rape. That's entitlement.

So, in your magic world, a prostituted woman has a revolting man come and pay for sex and she realises half way through he's hurting her and she says Stop.
But she has consented by taking his money.
So she has to carry on because consent has been bought?
And if you think she doesn't have to carry on - what do you realistically think is going to happen if she tries to stop him? He's going to say "oh sorry love, I'll stop now"?

That has nothing to do with anything I wrote.

You are seriously equating acting with prostitution? I think most actors would have something to say about that. Ditto actual messers providing a therapeutic service.

Sexual Consent as described by the Crown Prosecution service:

Someone consents to vaginal, anal or oral penetration only if s/he agrees by choice to that penetration and has the freedom and capacity to make that choice.

I'm equating prostitution to acting and massaging in one specific context. Namely that even though both by definition use the provider's body, they are said to be "selling their body".

What in that definition precludes getting paid? If consent can't be bought, how is all labour not slavery?

Oh FGS! So all actors are no more traumatised by their work than sex workers are? What?

Report it.

We had a place like that round here and it turned out the "women just trying to make a living" were underage and forced to be there

Once again totally irrelevant to my point.

So how can consent be bought then if you can't withdraw consent?

Tell me what would happen in my scenario under your "consent can be bought" philosophy.

We don't employ people in highly dangerous occupations even if they agree to it. Factories were made safer by act of parliament not because the workers wouldn't go to work. Same with the risk of trauma by prostituted women.

Why bother coming on to a post to accuse the op of lying? I've never understood why People cross examine ops and accuse them of lying.
Its Hardly an outlandish story, we had a brothel disguised as a massage parlour round here and it got shut down because the girls were underage so op also has a right to be concerned and report this.

Maybe the posters saying it's not a real story are just really sheltered from the real work idk.

Sex work is not intrinsically highly dangerous, though. Sex is a natural activity that takes place across the animal kingdom. Our closest relatives bonobos have sex constantly to bond and resolve disputes.

Of course there are tangential factors that may be harmful in relation to sex factors. That is why it should take place in a regulated manner, rather than underground.

Do they also work in brothels and traffick underage girls?

Of course she could withdraw consent, and legally if he carried on it would be considered rape. I'd like to think most people wouldn't continue, though they might demand their money back.

Are you asking whether hypothetically a prostitute could be in a dangerous situation? Well duh. But what does that have to do with the question whether consent can be bought or not?

As a matter of fact, your above hypothetical could happen to any woman, in free consensual sex. She might demand he stop and in some cases he won't. He would be breaking the law, and ideally be convicted for rape.

But that hypothetical doesn't undermine the notion of consent.

And BTW, people can enlist in the army, a dangerous profession if ever, and they can't withdraw consent in the middle. So we actually do have something like that.

The question was whether a prostitute is selling he body or a service.

So a masseuse giving a massage for an hour is selling a service, yet the last 2 minutes if she does a happy ending it suddenly becomes selling her body? What's the intrinsic difference?

I've met quite a few, and they all talked about trauma, dissociation, cycle of abuse and addiction. Several worked with agencies helping other prostituted women and girls escape.

Having seen what happened to women and children living in the Managed Zone, I will never support anything that makes it easier for men to buy women's bodies to abuse.

That is beside the point. Sex is not an inherently dangerous activity in humans or bonobos.

Of course sex workers can be at risk from activities like trafficking (which are tangential to the sex itself). That may also be the case in nail bars or barber shops.

That is why sex work should take place in regulated and safe settings. These should be overseen by trained managers and security staff, who can prevent harm taking place.

I would never deny the many issues with the industry. In fact I clearly stated I an not pro sex work.

I am challenging those who insist to be a swx worker is to be a rape victim or who argue that there are only a limited number of contexts in which sexual consent can be given (and they decide what those contexts are.)

So if they have the freedom and capacity to make that choice it is consensual….but if they freely make the decision to exchange sex for money then it stops being consensual?

Ive worked for Mind, and I don’t know if they have issues going into prostitution, or due to prostitution, but prostitutes have a disproportionately high need for mental health services.

That always leads me to think it’s not a great career.

Sounds like the military.

Do you struggle with what's appropriate and what's not? Would you go up to a woman on the street and grab her boobs? If not, why not?

That is beside the point. Sex is not an inherently dangerous activity in humans or bonobos.

But it's not beside the point. You're comparing humans to bonobos, therefore do bonobos traffick their young for sex?

No that’s not the same. Actors aren’t selling their bodies and neither are qualified massage therapists. I know a physio who does sports massage. Not selling their body. What a con women are being sold

Many women do not choose to be prostitues. That is what they are telling you. Just flipping read!

Actually sex work is inherently risky. And some of the most ‘popular’ acts are inherently risky, especially if done by someone who couldn’t give a flying fuck about the person who they’ve bought for whatever time.

Normalising sex work is harmful to women, just like porn is. But I disagree with the commodification of anyone’s body. For all reasons. It’s just that women’s bodies tend to be the bodies that are commodified.