To think SAHM with young DC deserve more respect

[CheekyFawn]

I work full time but currently on maternity leave looking after my 5 months old baby and a toddler DS who is 3 yo.
I just don't know where my time goes. Between breastfeeding baby, getting DS ready for preschool and tidying up the house, cooking meals etc, it just feels like there is no time at all even to have 5 mins of coffee break. I feel it was much better when I was at work couple of months ago when DS was in nursery that I used to get at least a lunch break for an hour or 30 mins at least or time between meetings to have a coffee and look at my phone in peace. I imagine this is I think how a day looks for SAHM with young DC and it's bloody hard. Many people just assume they are not doing much but I think they deserve more respect.

There are certainly industries like this but this is what I mean about being strategic from an early age. If you feel like you would like a few years as a SAHP to travel or do anything else (men or woman) then be cautious about pursuing careers that don't allow any kind of time out. It's hard to know from an early age exactly what you want to do in this space but picking an industry like the one you're in will take away lots of choices from you. Fine, if you're happy and this is what you want to do anyway but obviously it's more problematic when it's at odds with aspirations that you have in other areas of your life.

People have different goals and ambitions in life. Gen Z is showing a huge shift in this area versus previous generations. They are prioritising other things than just money and careers. Your DD is two so things will change again no doubt before she becomes an adult but I fundamentally disagree with your idea that you have to role model being a WOHP at all times otherwise her ambitions will be limited by your choices. Her ambitions may well be fundamentally different than yours anyway and if they're the same then she won't necessarily be motivated by trying to emulate what mum did. For as many kids that grow up trying to do this there are at least as many trying to do the exact opposite.

If you feel like you would like a few years as a SAHP to travel or do anything else (men or woman) then be cautious about pursuing careers that don't allow any kind of time out.

See, I think this is a really negative message to give girls, and we're not giving the same message to boys.

My mum chose her career largely to enable her to be flexible around my dad's job and to only work during term time. That was really limiting for her and I'm not sure she'd make the same choice if she had her time again.

Same with mine too. It's a reason why I took shorter maternity leaves.

I specifically stated men or women. It isn't just a message to girls.

Yes it is. It might not be your message but it is certainly society's message.

Except that in reality, it is.

And being a father isn’t?
So if a baby boy is born we teach him to work hard and do well at school and get a good job.
A baby girl is born and no point in all that as she can just sit at home on extended leave, not bother going back and let a man pay for her.

Of course it needs more respect. It’s work! And if there’s a partner parent in fulltime work, they should be contributing to the SAHP’s pension. It’s only fair. That SAHP’s (usually SAHM) are treated like worthless second class citizens is bonkers. And the SAHP pays for it in the end!

Increasingly it's not and increasingly it's nothing to do with raising children either. Gen Z is very very different. It is just pure common sense that you choose a career that facilitates your life goals. .

You seem very set on a 'one size fits all' approach. You think a chink in the 'get educated and get a highly paid job' is regressive for women. The truth is not everyone wants that or at least not all the time. It's as bad as the 1950s when being a SAHM was the only option available to women. Women want choice and flexibility.

If you're talking about respect from the other partner, then yes, of course I agree that they should show respect for the SAHP's contribution to their home. And I agree that they should make provisions for the SAHP's pension etc. Assuming, of course, that they are happy with being the sole breadwinner and having a SAHP in the first place, which isn't always the case.

I think it's totally reasonable to want your role to be respected within your own family. I just think it's different when you start demanding respect from the wider society.

I took 5 years off to bring up my family and never felt disrespected. You are of course right that it is a big and very important job.

I’ve been both.
sahm was by far easier than working for me.

Gen Z are barely out of nappies.

I think encouraging girls to limit their options at a young age based on your own world view that children are better off with a stay at home parent is regressive, yes.

I’m a HR Director. Have worked in several sectors.

Gen Z are different. Eg a cohort of brand new band 5 nurses barely out of the wrappers expecting to be band 7 managers within 2 years, or economist grads wanting to be promoted 2 levels the day after their grad programme ends. A large proportion don’t seem to understand that you have to put the effort in to learn the craft, or that organisations are triangles and not everyone will become the CEO. Yes, they have healthy attitudes to work life balance etc, but they often get a massive reality check (No, your degree doesn’t make you special. No, you’re not likely to get recognition if you aren’t visible and don’t go the extra mile. I had one that put “manage to watch 6 hours of Netflix whilst working” as an achievement on their annual review. They genuinely couldn’t see why the org might not think that was something to celebrate!)

Nobody is doing that!

Gen Z can be 28 years old.

@MissScarletInTheBallroom- "In my line of work you would struggle to get back in after any significant time off. Even taking more than 6 months' maternity leave is considered long."

Is that your definition of success?

brettsalanger same here. Some both and being a SAHM was infinitely easier.

I think it must partly doomed on the job you do too.

Last year I had a month off between jobs. It was heaven. I dropped DD at school; worked out; did all the housework, it was still only 10.30 am. I had so much free time left each day.

Compare this with leaving the house at 7 am, doing drop off, commuting, managing a demanding full time job, driving home and getting back at 7 pm.....yes SAH was a dream.

I think it is clear pp means it isn’t as simple as “just take a few years out” in all careers.

What kind of a question is that?

You're doing just that when you advise them to be cautious about planning a career which doesn't allow for any significant time out.

Most 28 year olds don't know their arse from their elbow. They're certainly not the boss of anything yet and they don't have enough experience of the working world to know whether their attitude to working life is going to be a good strategy for success.

I honestly am not going to respond to this message properly. You have some very strange ideas about 28 year olds that verge on ageist.

I imagine when you’re back at work in a few months time, getting a 3 year old and a (possibly still breasted) baby up, fed, nappy changed, dressed and out to drop off at childcare before doing a days work, then coming home to still have to do the washing, cook dinner etc - you’ll look back on this time as easy in comparison!

It's a simple fact.

Even if they left school at 18 and have been working ever since, which is the case for very few of them, they can have an absolute maximum of ten years' professional experience behind them, largely at the bottom of the food chain wherever they have been working. Given that most young people don't start working at 18 and many do some sort of higher education and/or travel (particularly those who have already decided to prioritise anything but work), it's more likely that they have a maximum of 5/6 years' professional experience.

It's also pretty unlikely that they have already had a child and taken maternity or paternity leave, given that the average age for a first time mum is now older than 28, and those who are having children earlier are usually those who don't have particularly high career ambitions in the first place and therefore less to give up in terms of salary and career progression if they choose to stay at home.

So how many 28 year olds have both (a) spent more than a handful of years working in a proper career path and (b) already taken at least one maternity leave, and can therefore talk about how to juggle these competing priorities with anything even vaguely resembling personal experience?

Very few, I'd say.

Totally agree
It's not bashing sahms it's common sense
If you are in financial difficulties then you need to get a job.
If childcare is the issue look for night/ weekend work.
This idea that being a SAHM is sacred and being told to get a job means you are a victim is batshit.

Exactly.

There are so many posts on this site from mums stressing because their home isn't big enough for all their children, or trapped in an abusive relationship because they are completely financially dependent on a man and can't afford to leave, sometimes it's so obvious that the advantages to their children of having a SAHM are vastly outweighed by the disadvantages of having a smaller family income and only one working parent.