To think SAHM with young DC deserve more respect

[CheekyFawn]

I work full time but currently on maternity leave looking after my 5 months old baby and a toddler DS who is 3 yo.
I just don't know where my time goes. Between breastfeeding baby, getting DS ready for preschool and tidying up the house, cooking meals etc, it just feels like there is no time at all even to have 5 mins of coffee break. I feel it was much better when I was at work couple of months ago when DS was in nursery that I used to get at least a lunch break for an hour or 30 mins at least or time between meetings to have a coffee and look at my phone in peace. I imagine this is I think how a day looks for SAHM with young DC and it's bloody hard. Many people just assume they are not doing much but I think they deserve more respect.

It's an emotive subject that usually results in a bun fight. But, I'll bite

I don't support the SAHP model as I think it's terrible for gender equality, especially when one parent, usually the man, has a "big job". This is harmful for the rest of us who want a more equal workplace

For as long as men with "big jobs" have women at home picking up the slack, then they will never empathise with women who need to leave work in time for nursery pick up. And will continue to promote other men who don't do that either

When men are doing their fair share of work at home, that's when we'll see more equality. So, I feel that SAHMs sabotage this for the rest of us

I've never met any SAHM IRL, only on MN. I assume they must have well paid partners to have this option. I don't really have an opinion about it except to hope they've considered their own financial security down the line. I imagine some jobs are easier to go back to later but thinking of my own field, I'd be completely behind if I was out of it for a few yrs as everything changes so fast so that would scare me.

Disagree - we need to value all work (paid and unpaid) for true sex equality.

Mary Wollstonecraft (the godmother of feminism) had a point back in the 1790s on recognising the work women do in the domestic sphere and she was a working woman.

I didn't have my son to provide future firefighters and doctors, and I spectacularly doubt you did either.

I'd love to see whether there's a difference in SAH kids vs WOH kids in terms of future careers too.

Children are the future, but that doesn't STOP them being a lifestyle choice. Just like someone might choose not to have children, but dedicate their lives to curing cancer.

Firstly, not all SAHPs are facilitating their partner to work. Lots of people are SAHPs because they think it's in the best interest of the child, not because it's the only way to facilitate the other parent to work.

Secondly, I never claimed that opting out of paid work gave you an automatic moral high ground. It depends what you're doing with your time. If you are raising young children well, caring for the old/vulnerable/disabled well or volunteering your time to a worthy cause then these clearly have a net benefit to society. If you are funding this without any reliance on the state then it's hard to argue that it isn't a net benefit. Could you be doing more for society by being a neurosurgeon or discovering the cure for cancer? Of course you can, but not many people work in these kinds of jobs either. Most of us work in grey areas and industries that aren't solely good but they do serve a need or want in society. I certainly work in this kind of area and I don't feel any moral superiority compared to a SAHM or someone that cares for other members of their family.

This is the least of your worries if you're genuinely worried about equality in the workplace. The next few decades will see a huge rise in those that are childfree and remain so throughout their working life. They won't have to worry about any constraints associated with raising a child and will find it relatively easy to put compete those with families and need flexibility etc.

Facilitated men will be a tiny minority compared to this group of people. This is a huge issue for mothers in particular who still take on the majority of childcare responsibilities even when both parents work.

Your post is disrespectful and ignorant
Far less chores if you and your toddlers are out of the house all day. No cooking or cleaning or tidying.

Massive difference in workload. I found office work far easier than being at home with my own children when small.

Also there's this attitude that SAHM at happy or able to do the bare minimum and relex- anyone can keep a kid alive type comments. "All you have to do is bung them some quavers and put a wash on".

People who work also have experienced maternity leaves, day offs etc we know what it is like.

I've always peed when I want at home.

I think in the 18th century it was necessary to demonstrate the value of the unpaid domestic work of women, as carers for children and the elderly, in the absence of statutory provision; and in keeping men fed and cared for in order for them to perform often gruelling manual jobs for long hours.
The contribution made by women, WC women in enabling WC men to stay alive to work; and MC women who often did unpaid community work, was rightfully highlighted, as the hidden support we provided was vital in building the nation. Ithink it needs to be remembered though that we made this contribution through lack of choice, not because it was best for us to do it, or for society that women did it. Had we been educated and provided with opportunities, we could have contributed to a greater extent in business, medicine, science etc. and men could have shouldered some of the domestic burden.
Now we are closer to that, we are questioning who's purpose women's domestic work serves. Because I've yet to read a compelling argument that shows the SAHM role in modern society is beneficial to anyone but the man of the house, or that it does anything positive for women in general, beyond the individual women who choose it from preference.

This. I never had an issue either. When they were babies they could go in cot or bouncy chair while I went to the loo or made a cuppa. Toddlers in playpen and older ones I could just lock the door. I'm not sure what's changed that it's now impossible.

My DDs don't seem to have the issue. Both of them have babies under 3 months and older children

But WOHPs are raising their kids as well?

If there was evidence that SAHPs were better at raising "healthy, well-behaved, educated or skilled children who will be an asset to society when grown up", then you would have a valid point, but the evidence doesn't back that up.

If the OP's argument was that we should respect parents who raise children that will be an asset to society when grown up, then fair enough. I can get on board with that. I just don't have any particular interest in how different families choose to organise their childcare.

And fwiw, I also respect parents who may be bringing up children with disabilities who will never be healthy, skilled or educated, even when there is no prospect of those children ever growing up to be "high achieving" or "assets" to society. Indeed, in many ways, I respect those parents all the more.

Raising the next generation is of course an important task but all involved parents are doing this, regardless of whether they SAH or WOH.

A lot of her work though was around elevating and promoting the role of a mother and breastfeeding your own infant rather than employing a wetnurse. The model you're promoting is a sort of proxy wetnurse model - get all women back into the commercial sphere and pay other women to look after the children.

Personally I think working or staying home are equally valid choices (in most scenarios) and neither is dragging other women down.

I think I have a problem with capitalism and its effect on women more than anything 😁

Honestly I think there has been a shift from respecting human life on the basis of innate worth vs economic worth. It is why OP harks to the future tax of her offspring. If you have this mindset then why value say anyone who can’t work due to disability?

All people who are trying not to negatively impact others deserve a level of respect; sahm, wohm, childless, childfree… independent on their job or lack thereof.

When I had my kids in the mid 1980s, it was working mothers who got the flack. Interesting the way the pendulum has swung back (if indeed it has - my DD was a SAHM for a year after each baby and I'm not aware of her feeling disrespected for it).

My three or four years of being a SAHM weren't for anyone's greater good other than mine. I unexpectedly found that I loved being home with my kids and being in control of my life, rather than being beholden to a job and a boss. My DH didn't have a Big Job and we had to tighten our belts hugely. But selfishly, that's what I wanted to do.

It fulfils a necessary societal function. Raising children to become secure productive adults is hugely important. By your logic no one deserve accolades for any career they choose because they chose that career.

Good parenting is a necessary societal function, but being a SAHP is not.

Not all parents are good, sadly. Whether SAHP or WOHP.

Nobody gets accolades simply for being a parent.

I think it's quite obvious that some people believe that having a SAHP is better for the children. It is also true that some women want to stay at home and look after their children. It is crazy to ignore these two factors even if you personally don't subscribe to either of them. Interestingly I feel like the sentiments behind these two factors are generally growing in society but they are manifesting in slightly different ways.

Working parents wanting to work remotely to be with their children more. Younger people prioritising their well being and work:life balance over chasing a lucrative career. A rise in home schooling and movement away from institutional settings being right for all children.

It's hard for researchers to pin down what these things mean and what they add to society and the individual. From a purely capitalist economic perspective, all of them are probably negative but from a wellbeing and happiness perspective this may well be very different. Of course I'm not saying that everyone should be SAHPs but there is definitely something in the fact that people want real choice to reflect their priorities. Men and women. Some really value time spent with the children, having a lovely, clean home and eating homemade nutritious meals. Domestic work has a huge value to the whole family. That doesn't mean you need a SAHP to do it but it certainly does nobody any favours to pretend it's unnecessary or has no impact on happiness.

Being a SAHP is the job of raising children, rather than working as a nanny or childminder or nursery employee etc. It is just another type of job, regardless of the fact it is not paid. No one in any job is necessarily good at it.

@RabbitsEatPancakes

you don’t need to do cooking in the day though. A simple sandwich and something fruit or something is ok for lunch

Being a parent is raising children. You don't have to be a SAHP to do it.

Yes, they deserve respect but I work part time in a job where I don’t get a break and have to run the household as well, have my three year old on my days off and do the school run for my eldest plus homework etc. I’m struggling.

My oldest was 3 when I was off with youngest, so quite similar to OP too.
I never encountered any hostility about being off, was just encouraged to be off as long as we could afford, as wouod never get this time back again.

I wonder if it varies by social circles. Most of our friends have professional roles, had babies in early to mid thirties, which is later than some. All well established in careers, so able to not worry about being off.

The only SAHMs and D's that slightly bug me are the ones who have only school age children, but always claim to be too busy to help with school trips/PTA/youth groups their child attends like girl guides etc, and then have a moan when these are threatened with being cancelled due to not enough helpers, it always seems to be the working parents who re arrange their commitments/take AL to help out.
That's not saying I judge them, they must have their reasons, but it is frustrating when it's the same people that seem to help with everything, in our village at least.

I think the sanitised social media videos of SAHMs contributes to this. The “day in the life” videos where they get up and do a 10 step skincare routine, do some kind of wholesome baby activity, make baby’s lunch from scratch, then walk in lovely fields and go for coffees til they go back to their spotless house. It’s just creating illusions that don’t exist.

Thank you, this articulated what I was thinking better than I managed to express.