To think food choices aren't everything regarding longevity?

[ThePigandPear]

I see a lot of food threads here and on other websites where people clash over what constitutes healthy foods, upf, etc.
I have a good diet and would like to remain fit, but I get the feeling that a lot of people choose to obsess over food because it is something they think they can control in a very uncertain world.

One person will suggest obesity has risen in tow with ultra processed foods.
Another will say "no! it's seed oils, low fat, sugar and so on!".
But few people suggest increasing car use, or having become far more sedentary, since these are lifestyle factors that many don't feel they have control over.
It is simpler to blame food.

So a healthy diet is very important, but what about sleep quality, stress, social connection, mental health and activity? A lot of those are very complicated and can't be as easily fixed.
I recall thinking this after reading about the famous Blue Zones, that the elder population were out playing tennis and gardening with company most days. However, the Blue Zones centenarians have been more recently debunked...

Sadly I have known a few people with very healthy lifestyle's and diets become ill or disabled, and a few who have died young. And there are always examples of that chain smoking great uncle who lived to 104 on beer, bacon and lard.

Good, healthy food is one thing we can make an impact with, but it is only a small part of the story, for me. The healthiest older people I have known have been very active (a LOT of walking), from hiking to just getting around on foot. They have also kept a social life outside of their home, and oddly enough, been single!
This is only from my own experience of course.
My mum was the very image of yoga, healthy eating, mediation, yet still suffered some debilitating health issues that could not be controlled by lifestyle, and became somewhat reclusive and sedentary in her old age as she had lost her community links. Family members who have got out there and kept doing stuff did seem to live much longer lives, regardless some bad habits (luck permitting).

I just don't think some good bread with peanut butter for brekkie is going to make a massive difference, or the occasional jar of supermarket sauce, unless I am piping adulterated shit down my throat 24-7.

I totally agree OP. Total lack of awareness of our generations “weightwatchers” (keto, paleo etc) demonising carbs and whole grains, bizarre conversation about UFPS with no value, weird unrealistic ideas about the power of diet.

the worst part is, 99% of the preachers stick to these diets for a few months then give up, quietly going back to their crossiants and Diet Coke.

Also I think it brings out our desire to be superior and criticise each other rather than accepting that we have little control over modern life.

and also the preachers never acknowledge how bloody healthy we are nowadays. It wasn’t long ago everyone had heart attacks from smoking and fried foods. Or died in industrial accidents or from asbestos poisoning. Sitting here working out how to reduce our chance of cancer by 0.035% through blueberries is a luxury of health, wealth and longevity

I think it's scary that so many seem to think all cancers/illnesses are lifestyle related. I know very healthy people who have had heart problems, cancer, lung issues, high blood pressure etc.

I think we massively overlook the impact of stress on one's health and the importance of social interaction.

My great gran lived to102,my gran till 98. Diet of porridge for breakfast, bread, cheese, honey and salad/greens/ whatever leftover stuff for lunch and either stews or boiled meat, and a heck.of a lot of carbs with either potatoes or dumplings. My great gran didn't even have a fridge, just a larder with a meat safe. She used to cook meat that would be thrown away now. Lots of cheap cuts. Even tripe, brain, trotters, tongue. Both of them smoked and drank.
They were always on the go though, gardening and growing veg, cleaning as well as working. Up by 5am. I used to stay at my great grans and she'd have me herding geese by 6am, sortingthe garden snd starching washing by 7. She lived that long because she was furious at not having had a washing machine for most of her life, I sometimes think. So much time, washing!

I discovered prunes can help prevent osteoporosis in post menopausal women so I eat 6 a day. It’s worked well. My DEXA scans are stable in my hips. Loads of research to back this up on PubMed.

Id say until you find yourself facing a negative life-changing outcome, thats debilitating, you won’t view food or diet as having much impact.

Dr Terry Wahls was in a wheel chair but improved her MS dramatically following a special diet. You can look it up if you wish.

There’s no doubt genetics plays a part and also your microbiome. Christenesella bacteria for example is associated with longevity but not everyone has it residing in their guts.

As you age, you get more and more inflamed. Pure and simply, that’s aging. Higher and higher circulating inflammatory cytokines. Often but not always IL6, IL1alpha and IL17. These are linked over and over again to all sorts of diseases.

estrogen is like an anti oxidant. It suppresses inflammation. But beyond 50 or so it disappears and menopause is highly inflammatory…

So following an anti inflammatory diet would hopefully reduce these cytokines and may provide a slightly longer healthspan, not lifespan.

Personally I want to be well for as long as possible. I don’t want decades of chronic comorbities, which seems to be the western world way.

I don’t eat like a freak but I’ve done the research and I do what I can.

I go to the gym in the mornings and see a lot of very fit and healthy older ladies, 70+ I have wondered if they are fit and healthy because they are still doing physical exercise, or are they at the gym because they have the good fortune to be fit and healthy.
I think lifestyle does affect health but there is a lot of genetics involved and a certain amount of luck.

There were/might still be available, of people living in "blue zones" think there are 4 main ones, where a much higher than usual percentage of people live healthy lives over 100. One in Greece, Japan, USA and ........ can't pinpoint the last one tempted to say either Peru or Italy.

There were common themes throughout, constant activity, socialisation, a feeling of purpose and simple food but eaten with people. And a positive outlook. The group from Japan explained their younger sisterhood between mums where when one was skint there was this sort of community pay it back when you can loaning system, people fed each other, looked after each other's children. Basically the opposite of the "are you jealous of my holiday" brigade lot on Instagram!

I think we are an increasingly unhappy culture, just look at threads on here, and I can relate! I also feel as if the internet has sped something up inside of us that preferred to remain slow. There really is too much stimulation, and we have no idea how that might be affecting our bodies in the long term either.

The food stuff sometimes reminds me of religious fervour. What we have moved away from in religious terms we have now begun to associate with food (sin, purity, etc).

I also agree that as a society with plentiful cheap and diverse food stores, it was bound to result in a sort of judgmental decadence, the higher status looking down on the choices of the low status. Wasn't it always thus?

I mean, I noticed something on instagram *the new bit, (the meta AI), where it invites you to create an AI buddy who you can have deep, philosophical conversations with - basically regurgitated rubbish. How could this stand in for human connection?

I sometimes fear this dystopian kind of future.... of severely lonely individuals, all suspicious of one another, chatting away with AI. What if longevity has a lot to do with human connection? If so we are heading in the wrong direction.

A lot of marriages I know are just existing after a certain age. Got the big mortgage done, the kids have left, and...lonely.

Why do you say that we don’t have an influence on activity levels / sedentary lifestyle? We all do (disability aside of course) just as much as food.

Some feel trapped. Many housing estates require driving out as no infrastructure. Many shops relocate to more distant retail parks with low transport. Kids not hanging out as much or playing outside like previously. Parents over protective. Most life exists in cars, and many people don't feel that they could cope well by giving that up, especially for work.
Many can't chose work location. How many hours they have to sit during work. Many people sre so busy with hectic lives that they get little to no rest or quality sleep.
And there are many people with mental health issues that impact activity, depression, etc.

Much easier to choose porridge over cereal.

I dunno, in an office or on a train 10 hours a day then stagger home exhausted and stressed? Doesn’t sound like much influence to me

Of course it's not just about food. I think you're very mistaken to think that people can fix their diet far more easily than the other ills you mention though. If there's one thing that's very obvious, it's that people find it incredibly difficult to change their diet, especially in the long term.

Also those areas are hilly/ mountainous. It’s now thought that part of the longevity is related to everyday hill walking, which makes a big impact over your lifetime

It’s agree it is definitely not just food, it’s food, activity levels and social connectivity and luck of course. I’ve been doing a project with older people in work recently and I note people with a growth mindset really seem to age well.

Apparently loneliness is as bad for your health as smoking.

The obviously correct truth on this matter is whatever drives most traffic to my heavily monetised social media pages where I confidently dispense narcissism under the guise of expertise.

many of of those factors are the same as ones governing people’s food choices - or lack of them. I’m not quite sure why you think they are so separate.

I agree. Diet is like everything else. Good to be balanced. These keto/Kaffir/no carb diets whatever they are - load of marketed bullshit making someone rich so they can sell a book.

Smoking and alcohol are the culprits. You avoid them, you're on a winner.

Ironically these super ultra healthy types conveniently still don't mind sticking ethanol down their necks !

Sedentary lifestyle is also a culprit, in some cases more of one, and also largely avoidable

I disagree on alcohol being a culprit of poor health.
I think that the inflammatory stuff probably has some truth in it. Which is why I've chosen to start statins. Also good activity levels. Not just in one burst, but throughout the day. When my DP started cardiac rehab, after a Nstemi, the question put to the group was what don't we no longer do? Get up to turn the television over, get up to answer the phone, get up every 20 minutes during the advert breaks. We aren't meant to sit for long periods of time.

This is a really interesting topic.

I fully agree that we have very little control over any of it. Cancer gave me an an absolute beating some years ago and I'm definitely more committed to health than most of my peers.

When you're talking about the blue zones are they the areas where people live the longest? I watched a few of the episodes on netflix and don't remember it very clearly but yes definitely way more to it than food.

I think connection was a big thing; societies where families were close. Social media is really destroying meaningful connection.

Then movement and playing music etc? So keeping joyful activities a part of life I guess.

I also think purpose is vital. How many times do we hear of a person being diagnosed with a terminal illness within a year of retiring? Instead of stopping completely there should be a wind down or change the type of work you do.

Practicing gratitude always, being aware of the present moment and not getting involved in other people's dramas or carrying their stresses as your own are my personal contributions.

Agree with this.

I’ve read books about the blue zones and the two things they all had most in common were the community aspect/.social interaction and low stress/support to help with stress from others. These were the best protections against early death.

Yes good simple food was also important but there was not one particular diet that stood out. Some were vegan, some were carnivore, some followed a Mediterranean diet. Some drank good quality wine some were teetotal. All very varied in terms of diet.

Low stress and community were key.

Loneliness definitely.

I'd suggest (after watching my mum's group of Benjamin button friends) that just bloody enjoying life, being curious and willing to give things a go is the way forward. Also, socialising with people of different ages.

This is very interesting. Regarding the anti-inflammatory diet, are there any ones in particular you’ve read about that you’d recommend? Or just in general?
I know little-to-nothing about this (as you can probably tell!) but it’s something I am interested in learning more about.

My grandad lived to 104 and was mostly in good health until then apart from a pacemaker in his 90s and then dementia kicked in around 95ish but it was a pretty slow decline. He literally just dropped down dead one day. He was very fit but didn't eat what we would consider super healthily - just pretty basic British meals. He stayed active until his late 90s and was gardening into his 80s (as a job). He didn't overeat or smoke or drink lots which probably helped. Maybe genetics - who knows!