To think food choices aren't everything regarding longevity?

[ThePigandPear]

I see a lot of food threads here and on other websites where people clash over what constitutes healthy foods, upf, etc.
I have a good diet and would like to remain fit, but I get the feeling that a lot of people choose to obsess over food because it is something they think they can control in a very uncertain world.

One person will suggest obesity has risen in tow with ultra processed foods.
Another will say "no! it's seed oils, low fat, sugar and so on!".
But few people suggest increasing car use, or having become far more sedentary, since these are lifestyle factors that many don't feel they have control over.
It is simpler to blame food.

So a healthy diet is very important, but what about sleep quality, stress, social connection, mental health and activity? A lot of those are very complicated and can't be as easily fixed.
I recall thinking this after reading about the famous Blue Zones, that the elder population were out playing tennis and gardening with company most days. However, the Blue Zones centenarians have been more recently debunked...

Sadly I have known a few people with very healthy lifestyle's and diets become ill or disabled, and a few who have died young. And there are always examples of that chain smoking great uncle who lived to 104 on beer, bacon and lard.

Good, healthy food is one thing we can make an impact with, but it is only a small part of the story, for me. The healthiest older people I have known have been very active (a LOT of walking), from hiking to just getting around on foot. They have also kept a social life outside of their home, and oddly enough, been single!
This is only from my own experience of course.
My mum was the very image of yoga, healthy eating, mediation, yet still suffered some debilitating health issues that could not be controlled by lifestyle, and became somewhat reclusive and sedentary in her old age as she had lost her community links. Family members who have got out there and kept doing stuff did seem to live much longer lives, regardless some bad habits (luck permitting).

I just don't think some good bread with peanut butter for brekkie is going to make a massive difference, or the occasional jar of supermarket sauce, unless I am piping adulterated shit down my throat 24-7.

Unfortunately I agree with you. It really does feel like there's a lot of luck involved.

They didn’t eat processed food. only because it’s wasn’t available, not because of some moral superiority.

And the vast majority smoked. Many from the moment they woke up until the moment they went to sleep. (Or indeed slightly after. I still remember how almost every Saturday morning when I was growing up in the 60s and 70s there would be a story on the radio news about a family being killed in a house fire, usually caused by Dad getting back from the pub and falling asleep with a fag on in front in the front room.)

Im not sure why it matters that people didnt eat UPFs because they didnt exist, the fact of the matter is they didnt and our health has got worse in many aspects since then

We might be living longer but are we living longer in health? I dont know the stats on that

Also nothing wrong with bread and dripping, not sure why people are aghast at people eating fat.

I agree with everything you say OP. People are desperate to believe there is some kind of magic talisman they can employ to protect them from death.
Of the 5 or 6 women I know who got breast cancer ALL were slim, non smoking, excercise, ate healthy food. Sometimes it’s just pure dumb bad luck.
I definitely think stress is a killer and joy is very helpful. Just making the most of life, whether that is going to a salsa class or making a lovely cake to share.
I also think genetics have a huge part to play. My DP is from a family where they seem to go on and on. His dad is 90 odd and lives on whisky and fags. DP is pretty much constructed of strong coffee and smoked for 25 years. I’m not sure he ever drinks more than 1 glass of water per day. Vegetables are kind of regarded as a garnish for him. He is still astonishingly fit (infuriatingly as he puts little effort into it).
As for our grandparents mythical home grown veg- my grandparents lived in a council flat and ate egg and chips fried in dripping. Few vegetables. One lived to 65, the other 90. The one that died young had a stressful job.
The main thing is we just none of us know how long we have. Obsessing about how virtuous we are, and how well we are protecting ourselves from the inevitable takes away our joy of life. I think it’s actively damaging people actually.

Also UPFs surely did exist? Fray bentos pies, Spam, white sliced bread, fizzy pop, margarine, Mr Kipling etc etc
They have been around a long time!

Yes probably genetics are the biggest factor.
But I wonder how much we should also blame on pollution. as in air quality but also particles of plastics and other materials leeching into the food we consume and is there a problem with physical contact in objects we use / touch all the time such as clothing made of, essentially, plastics and washed with all sorts of detergents which leave residue in fabrics, the steering wheel etc). And, realistically, the majority of our food is contaminated with something or another. I suspect the human body is pretty good at removing a lot of bad stuff but not all of it.

'One person will suggest obesity has risen in tow with ultra processed foods.
Another will say "no! it's seed oils, low fat, sugar and so on!".
But few people suggest increasing car use, or having become far more sedentary, since these are lifestyle factors that many don't feel they have control over.
It is simpler to blame food.'

This is just nonsense OP. Firstly foods containing, sugar or that are described as a 'low fat' alternative are often UPF's - where the fat has just been replaced with sugar. I've never heard of olive oil (a seed oil) being blamed for obesity, quite the opposite in fact.

Being sedentary is well known as a problem and a contributing factor to obesity - but it is pretty much impossible to lose weight with exercise alone. There's the well known thing of you have to run for 20 minutes or more just to burn one Mars bar. So it's much easier to not eat the Mars bar than to have to run for 20 minutes to try to burn it off.

Obviously exercise is great for health, but when it comes to losing weight then diet is far more important. And there are clear links between obesity and the biggest killers even if everyone knows a very overweight person that lived a long life. They probably also know a smoker who lived a long life too, but smoking is still a huge health risk.

People believe what's convenient to them though, like the PP who doesn't think alcohol is a culprit of poor health. I guess they've never watched someone die from cirrhosis of the liver.

Well, it is hardly controversial that our diet is a contributory factor to our health / ill-health, and our diet IS something we can control so why wouldn't we try and eat more healthily?

Only n idiot would think that this was the be all and end all in our health - cancer, a road accident, genetics, the air we breathe, fitness, MH, any number of factors within and outwith our control affect our health.

All we need to do is observe common sense.

Weight loss is not necessarily a healthy diet, (e.g Keto, any other 'diets') but BEING less fat probably is, for most peolpe.

And no, not everyone who adjusts to a healthier diet relapses to croissants and diet coke as a pp alleges.

There is preaching and zealousness, there is denial, projection and defensiveness. And there is common sense and a broadly healthier way to eat and live.

I see as much denial and defensiveness as I see 'preaching'. If you don't want to be on weight loss / healthier eating threads, fine, stay away.

Choose what works for you.

Whilst, yes, fit/healthy people do get cancers etc. and everyone knows a chain smoking granny who lived to 100, you really can't ignore the statistics and correlation between an unhealthy lifestyle and poor health outcomes. There are always outliers in statistics but that doesn't mean the correlation and links don't exist.

But yes, I fully agree that other factors like stress are massively underappreciated, especially by scientists and medical professionals, and also other things like disturbed sleep patterns (to some extent linked to stress). It's been very noticeable among my family and close friends that, in particular, unexpected cancers have followed periods of extreme stress, which happened both for my father and my OH, who had otherwise led very healthy lives, never overweight, lots of exercise, good healthy eating choices, etc., but both struck down with two different cancers within a year or two of extreme prolonged stressful events, - these being rare cancers with no known cause or contributory factors, so nothing to do with health, exercise, food, etc - just sheer randomness, and the common factor being the extreme stress which had worn them down.

The thing is that whilst you can measure things like weight, BMI, blood pressure, heart rate, etc., so you can produce statistics between quantifyable measures like that against health outcomes, you can't measure stress nor lack of sleep etc - so you can't, say, plot a graph of stress against cancer, hence why scientists and medical practitioners shrug it off.

@CarrieOnComplaining

Well, it is hardly controversial that our diet is a contributory factor to our health / ill-health, and our diet IS something we can control so why wouldn't we try and eat more healthily?

I agree, it makes sense to at least try to improve your own health. I think people are just in denial when they resort to the 104 year old granny anecdote. They just don't want to face the future and don't want to face their currently unhealthy lifestyles. A bit like sticking your fingers in your ears and chanting la la la!

Of course, no guarantees, but it seems strange that so many people seem to deliberately want to ignore the blindingly obvious and not even try.

@Spring025

Obviously exercise is great for health, but when it comes to losing weight then diet is far more important.

No it really isn't. I put on loads of weight with a sedentary job and eating lots of crap processed food and binge eating. I got to whopping 23 stones!

I've lost 8 stones of that over the past decade, but I still eat the same kind of crap in the same kind of quantities. The difference is that I do at least 10k steps walking per day, every day, as I walk to/from work (just over a mile away), have a lunchtime walk and an evening walk. I don't do any other exercise - don't go to the gym, cycle only occasionally, only swim on holidays, etc. It's just walking, but a lot of it! I am still losing weight despite still binge eating. I know the eating side of things is utterly bonkers, but that's the nature of an eating disorder. But I've proved that being active at least 3 or 4 times per day for at least half an hour at a time means you can steadily lose weight, even if your eating is crap.

I agree with you. It's all too easy to say "My chain smoking obese granny lived to 100 and my best mate who was a marathon runner died of cancer aged 25". The fact is the statistics really don't back up the anecdotal evidence. The evidence that links poverty, poor diet, unhealthy habits with disease and early death is just overwhelming.
I say this as someone who was a fit, slim and healthy vegetarian who got cancer in my 30s, so I know only too well that luck comes into it!! However, I'm still aware that the vast majority of people who get my particular type of cancer are over 60, obese and smoke. I was just one of the exceptions.

Although it’s all going to change again, there are microplastics in our, and our children’s brains now, can’t escape them they are in the air around us!
which can’t be good just have to figure out how bad it can get!

Forever chemicals on pans, furniture and clothes.

Make-up, suntan lotion, cleaning products, scented candles, perfume, the list is endless.

Our environment is fucked. The consequences are only just beginning.

Do what you can, when you can, enjoy your glass of wine or biscuit, have a fuck-it oven dinner from time to time. Enjoy your friends, make your teenagers eat with you, love your spouse like you did when you first met. Get a dog not an AI chat bot.

I think you have to have the mind set of being here for a good time not a long time.

Because lack of UPfs isn’t something linked to good health.

in fact, isn’t the whole concept of UPfs just made up by prof van tulliken? We know that food is processed. Labelling it as upf doesn’t really add anything?

Your genes are the biggest factor here. You can maximise your potential by eating well and staying active, but it shouldn't be the misery/guilt thing too many of us make it. A good friend of mine died a couple of years ago in her early fifties of oesophageal cancer. She was superfit - a very active woman who enjoyed a physically active life, she had a good diet, she was happy and as stress-free as most of us can be, but this was her third experience of cancer. In the end, it's your genes.

The anxiety around food is counterproductive. It's good to eat well - enjoy fresh food whenever you can. But it's just part of a healthy life. The moment the food you are eating is: a) isolating you from others and b) causing anxiety, you've gone wrong in your quest.

Like people say: Eat an apple, go for a walk, hug your friends. Don't worry so much!

I disagree. I think the move away from unprocessed foods to UPFs has had a big impact on our health.

I know this is going off topic but that is an absolutely amazing achievement.

Yes, but that still doesn't negate the statistical facts. Anecdote isn't data. Exceptions don't disprove the rule.

Thank you. It's not just the weight loss, I've reversed T2 diabetes and "cured" my high blood pressure. Also I feel so much healthier, no longer have joint pain, no longer feel lethargic, I'm told I have a much healthier complexion, etc. I'm now a great advocate for regular/gentle exercise. I'm pretty sure I'd have had my first heart attack by now if I'd still been a 23 stone sloth!

if you’re interested in longevity have a look at Peter Attia. He’s a leading expert in this area and does a great longevity podcast 101. But essentially he says exercise in the number one except for maybe emotional health.

This is not necessarily true. The biggest killer today is cardiovascular disease which is completely modifiable with lifestyle change and medications. Cancer is next, and yes a lot of this is down to bad luck/genes unfortunately but telling people ‘it’s your genes’ is not true for most of the biggest killers of today.

LOVE IT - well done.

Longevity is a combination of:
Maintaining a healthy weight
staying active - physically and with family/community
Not developing illnesses like cancer/heart disease.

Genes

Eating whole foods helps. Managing stress level helps. Not drinking much helps. Not smoking definitely helps. But none are a holy grail - it’s a combination. And there’s always that bloody bus which can snuff you out even if you do everything right.

Yes I remember my grandparents eating all this stuff in the 90's

I've recently started using the YUKA app to check what is in the food I eat. It's been really helpful to make better choices (for cosmetics, baby lotion etc too)