To think food choices aren't everything regarding longevity?

[ThePigandPear]

I see a lot of food threads here and on other websites where people clash over what constitutes healthy foods, upf, etc.
I have a good diet and would like to remain fit, but I get the feeling that a lot of people choose to obsess over food because it is something they think they can control in a very uncertain world.

One person will suggest obesity has risen in tow with ultra processed foods.
Another will say "no! it's seed oils, low fat, sugar and so on!".
But few people suggest increasing car use, or having become far more sedentary, since these are lifestyle factors that many don't feel they have control over.
It is simpler to blame food.

So a healthy diet is very important, but what about sleep quality, stress, social connection, mental health and activity? A lot of those are very complicated and can't be as easily fixed.
I recall thinking this after reading about the famous Blue Zones, that the elder population were out playing tennis and gardening with company most days. However, the Blue Zones centenarians have been more recently debunked...

Sadly I have known a few people with very healthy lifestyle's and diets become ill or disabled, and a few who have died young. And there are always examples of that chain smoking great uncle who lived to 104 on beer, bacon and lard.

Good, healthy food is one thing we can make an impact with, but it is only a small part of the story, for me. The healthiest older people I have known have been very active (a LOT of walking), from hiking to just getting around on foot. They have also kept a social life outside of their home, and oddly enough, been single!
This is only from my own experience of course.
My mum was the very image of yoga, healthy eating, mediation, yet still suffered some debilitating health issues that could not be controlled by lifestyle, and became somewhat reclusive and sedentary in her old age as she had lost her community links. Family members who have got out there and kept doing stuff did seem to live much longer lives, regardless some bad habits (luck permitting).

I just don't think some good bread with peanut butter for brekkie is going to make a massive difference, or the occasional jar of supermarket sauce, unless I am piping adulterated shit down my throat 24-7.

I think some of us were talking about what our grandparents ate in the 40s and 50s!

I remember when I gave up smoking a long time ago my doctor said that has the main effect on health. Everything else is tinkering around the edges - all relative of course!

I'm aware thank you, I was simply pointing out that I remember these items being part of my grandparents diet. Probably long before I can remember too ...

Yes, I agree. I just think processed foods became way more prominent in the 80s and 90s. Maybe from the 70s onwards.

Yes, but at the start of "processed food", the main additives were salt and sugar to preserve the food in tins etc to give it a longer shelf life. Obviously not the healthiest of additives.

Over the years, with sugar and salt being demonised, more chemicals have been added instead for increasing life, colouring to make it look nicer, artificial sweeteners instead of sugar etc.

So the actual content of the processed foods is very different from what it was a few decades ago.

There is evidence of a link between UPF and the rise of obesity. The food companies engineer the food to be addictive. Look up Bliss Point if you want to know more, there's lots of verified info about it.

You can look at Van Tulleken's documentary about the links between and research carried out by the food companies, tobacco companies and marketing companies and how what they did starting post WWII has led to the increase in obesity.

Healthy eating and keeping active both physically and mentally lead to longevity. Of course some people will be unlucky and die early whether they lead a healthy lifestyle or not.

No I agree with that to some degree, I dont like the obsession about 'UPFs', half of the people obsessed with it dont even know what it is, and there is no clear definition in any case

However are overly processed or manufactured foodstuffs which contain a lot of non food items, particularly the sugar chemicals within them, or a diet full of those things linked to poor health? I think they are if we are talking about weight gain. I think in countries where there is less consumption of them, obesity levels are lower

Of course good health is not predicated on weight levels alone.

Oh my god, I cant believe Im reading a sentence that contains grandparents and 1990s!!

I think this is the problem now that Im old, when people talk about what their grandparents ate, they're talking about my dietary choices as a 20 and 30 year old!!!

Im talking about the 40s, 50s, 60s.

I think generally food stuffs up to around the 70s were processed like bread, or tins or cakes or sausages or ham or thingsl ike that which are just bog standard processed foods which are no harm to anyone

They used basics like fat, sugar and salt to preserve or to add flavour

Nowadays people wanted fats, salts and sugars to be removed or reduced and manufacturers put all sorts of cheaper version of that in to maintain flavour without the actual product but also to make our bodies want more of it.

Absolutely! The conversation so frequently strays into obesity- as it has on this thread too.

being obese isn’t a healthy state, and it increases your risk of all sorts of things that may reduce your longevity.

but there are 2 things that stand out- that as you say, you can be obese and physically healthy. You can be obese and not suffer from the diseases that it puts you at risk of

but also- that can’t be the whole conversation, because most people aren’t obese. The conversation is absolutely dominated by the idea of weight loss. What if you don’t need to lose weight? Are you justified in obsessing over UFPs, diet plans, sugar documentaries, skinnytok etc etc if you don’t need to lose any weight? Isn’t that obsession more mentally unhealthy for you than a few extra pounds will ever be?!?

These are good points although I dont agree that you can be 'healthy' and obese

You may not have the health conditions that it puts you at risk of however.

And while the majority are not obese, the majority are overweight.

I agree. It's the old torture numbers enough, they will admit to anything.

I don’t think anyone has mentioned this yet, but there was an interesting article in The Times today that is relevant to this discussion.

It reports on a 30 year study of over 100,000 Americans with an average age of 53 at the start. By the end of the study, only 9.3% of the participants were considered to be healthy. The researchers found that diet was the second most important risk factor for death and chronic disease for older adults (smoking was top).

The healthy participants had diets rich in fruits, vegetables, whole grains, unsaturated fats, nuts, grains and low-fat dairy products.

The least healthy were those with a high intake of sodium, sugary drinks, trans fats, red meat and processed meat.

I know a woman who has had a v healthy vegetarian diet, has had breast cancer twice and now has Parkinson's in her 50s. She never smoked, rarely drank. There's no reason for it, she couldn't have lived a healthier life tbh. How to explain it? I don't know.

There are always exceptions - they don’t negate the facts and statistics and probability.

People don't have a great understanding for many reasons.

Some think that everyone knows what UPF are and it's common sense but there are some who really dont understand that a shepherds pie you make yourself from scratch is any different to a shepherd's pie ready meal.

There are other swho do but don't care occasionally.becaise it's convenient and that sometimes is more important for their life.

One person will suggest obesity has risen in tow with ultra processed foods.
Another will say "no! it's seed oils, low fat, sugar and so on!".

But these aren't that far removed from each other really. And people who generally avoid one will also avoid the other.

It's just common sense to me that industrialised food made in a factory with a whole load of crap added isn't going to be as good for you as 'real' food with real ingredients. Others disagree and believe it is just as good or even better. But that largely depends on how good your cooking skills are amd what you have learnt from those around you.

Of course it isn't the only factor in terms of good health but you are what you eat and all that.

Still, one rarely sees old obese people, the long lifers are usually slim

I'm not convinced marathon running is particularly good for you. Or at least running multiple marathons per year. Exercise is good, but taking it to the extreme like some people do is no better than excess in any other part of your life.

I said this at the time, well commented they were hilly and frost free, something along the lines of they wouldn’t be doing that in January in Scotland, broken hips left right and centre

https://www.netflix.com/tudum/articles/dont-die-man-who-wants-to-live-forever

have any of you watched this?

I realise it has become cool on Mumsnet to ridicule the Keto or low carb diet, but is it possible to understand that some people, like me, benefit from it?
I learned a lot about the negative effects of sugar and carbs over a decade ago when I had gestational diabetes. My DF (not much overweight) had type 2 diabetes, lost a leg and his eyesight due to the disease.
Despite being a size 8 most of my life, from 35yrs+, my weight gradually increased despite healthy food, small portions and exercise.
Keto or low carb is the only thing that successfully works for me in maintain a healthy weight. It lowers inflammation in the body (plenty of research out there), my cholesterol etc….is perfect and my teeth in great condition because they’re not exposed to sugar. It’s a diet that was partly established to help reduce epileptic seizures. There is a recent research paper that reported unhealthy long term effects from the diet, but their results were based on mice fed absolutely no carbs at all, which isn’t reflective of what the keto diet actually is - plus I’m not a mouse 🐭
Please don’t judge!

But again, this is a sound bite that isn’t true. it’s patronising and you are equating good choices with intelligence and common sense.

however, I capable of reading the ingredients on a ready meal an understanding whether they are UPfs.

Take m&s basic cottage pie, the first in the search list:

This is what worries me and is exactly what the OP is talking about

this man is clearly suffering from a very serious eating disorder, and / or OCD. Someone gave him a platform for his dysfunctional ideas as if it’s science or entertainment. We should be recognising how unwell this man is, not suggesting he should be copied

But interestingly, because the internet is so full of people with eating disorders who preach about their latest way of controlling their food intake, I tend to just not believe examples like yours. You can’t really take them at face value can you?

He gave himself a platform, he's a multimillionaire

That’s neither here nor there- being a multimillionaire doesn’t get you a Netflix show. He’s an example of someone who is seriously disturbed being taken at face value