Sad about reaction to summer residential trip but is it a sign of the times?

[Flowersinthehood]

DC is in year 5, we were speaking amongst us (the parents in the class) about the year six residential trip next year. It’s five days, three hours drive away doing activities and stuff that most children would probably enjoy doing with their friends.
My DC has SEN and is emotionally about two years younger. She still needs some help with dressing, time management etc, making sure she has things she needs, even more so than most kids of her age.
That said, I really want her to go on the residential trip. I have such fond memories of my trip. I know she’s not me though, and she’s not a kid of the nineties.
So many other parents said they didn’t think their kids would go, or they didn’t want them to. The main reason was anxiety (the child’s), them not trusting school, didn’t see a need for it as they did lots of activities ‘as a family’ (failing to see how much more fun it would be with friends), kids haven’t slept in anyone else’s house or been apart from them.
It made me think about how much has changed. I grew up in a council estate (whilst we live in an affluent area now) and we were out and about on our bikes. Kids walked to the local shop on their own from around 7, no real discussion of stranger danger.
My DC hasn’t had any of these experiences. We parents manage her social life, we are cautious about knowing friends families before she goes for play dates. I’m a single parent so she goes to her dads for sleepovers but hasn’t been anywhere else to sleep.
Are we unrealistic to expect our children to cope with the same things at the same age when they have so much less freedom?

I was in a mixed year 5 and 6 class when I was in year 5, so when the year 6s went on their residential I was left behind with the handful of other year 5s and that was honestly a brilliant week too. Me and my best friend were sat in the back of another classroom, doing our own projects (he did one on space, I did one on aeroplanes), going to the Reception classroom to help out, going to the library by ourselves to do research, and generally just having a great time independently learning.

I guess where you live also makes it easier to give children independence. I live in a big city stabbings and mugging are common place. There is no way on gods earth my 5 or 6 year old would be walking anywhere by themselves.

I don’t think school residential trips were optional, they are not at my daughter’s school anyway. All the kids loved the residential trip last year, and are very much looking forward to this year - a full week away.

I do think times have changed, but that’s for the better. We are more aware of possible abuse these days.

Of course they are optional... they can't physically take the child away without the parents/guardians permission.

The residential experience is about so much more than making memories, it is about introducing independence in a managed way and letting the child begin to untie those apron strings! Being unable to allow the child to experience this is really detrimental to the child’s development.

This doesn't match with my experience, I don't know anyone that hasn't let their dc on a school sleepover or residential.

I've noticed an increased proportion of clingy, anxious parents with my youth groups. The children are fine! We've taken children with additional needs away and worked with their parents to meet their individual needs; it's not them doing it.

Even with regular meetings, they're fretting over trivia like rain during outside activities- yes, just bring a coat, it's just regular British rain!

It is worse since Covid. The hump as normality slowly crept back to normal was understandable. I was working with two groups of same age range. The larger unit that kept up as much contact as possible and had more continuity of children familiar with routines fared better than the one that was off for 13m and had a greater turnover of children. I am curious about why parents of children who were 2-3 years old at that time are so significantly affected so far down the line.

There have been other shifts too such as the scale of restrictive, picky, sensory eating. We've often had one at a time in this category, but now we've got 5 that will not eat fresh fruit, salad or vegetables of which one has got additional needs (which is understandable as a sensory processing issue) This indicates that there is a shift in parenting. From looking at the rate that the fruit bowl goes down on residentials where there's free access to fruit, grapes go first, then bananas, the occasional apple and the oranges are untouched. My theory is that they're used to easy pre-prepared/ soft fruits that are near instant to eat, and aren't used to having to unpeel a satsuma or chew around a whole apple.

After Stockport, we did have a parent fretting about our venue security. They were basically told that these are our ratios, this is the venue, if you are not satisfied with our risk assessments (HQ compliant) there is nothing practical that we have the ability to change, and this may not be the activity for you. This is in the context of a hired venue, surrounded by pitches filled with children playing football. For fire safety we can not obstruct fire exits, and we can't run a unit compliant with the programme with children permanently locked indoors and shuttered in to protect against (thankfully) incredibly rare crimes, and it would do child development no favours whatsoever.

The world is not perfect. It wasn't perfect when I was a child (or for decades before). It isn't perfect now. On balance, I feel that my children have better safeguarding mitigations now than previous generations. Realistically the most likely hazards can be accessed from home in the palms of their hands.

Children need to have appopriately managed space to develop and residentials are a great opportunity to expand their experiences and develop social connections. Having had a restrictive parent (as a response to her own traumas, plus general dislikes) the chance to do residentials, language trips and DoE because school was "safe" was invaluable. I also spent time with cousins that had more liberal parents that gave me a flavour of the more normal upbringing for my generation. Raising an autistic child myself, it's particularly important to gradually and carefully nudge and expand his comfort zones to help his development towards being a functional adult, and that's included camps and residential opportunities.

I do think there is a lot more judgement of parents now. Whenever you see something horrible in the press a lot will respond with "who was watching them", "why were they walking alone", etc.

There is no way they are mandatory , it’s literally impossible to make them mandatory under law

I think it terribly sad when posters on this thread have said that “they’re young for a short time so I want them at home”. That is not being a good parent! You are supposed to be raising them, not preserving them in aspic. Do I miss small ds? Hell, yeah. But if I had never allowed him to have a sleepover or go on a trip (including French Exchange) I would have been a selfish mother just in it for myself and not caring about his chance to develop as a human being.

@Airwaterfire my experience too in the 70s -

It seems to be the English speaking places, the UK, Australia, NZ, Canada, and the US.

I guess some of it may be shared media, but I have wondered what it is in the culture of these places that leads to this anxiety about young people becoming independent. Or is it just chance that somehow this idea has become prevalent?

The opposite at my grandchildren’s school. They did a 3 night residential in year 4 and everyone in the class went and by all accounts had a great time. My grandchild is really looking forward to the next one.

I think the start of ‘anxious parenting’ was when very sadly there was a spate of high profile child abductions in the early 2000s (Milly Dowler, Holly and Jessica, Sarah Payne). These poor children were all taken while playing or being outside without their parents. I feel like that was a bit of a turning point, and the internet (with the ability to track and google every news story and danger going) has massively ramped it up.

Mine are older now but loved going away and we actively encouraged it for the break! They went camping for weekends with cubs from seven or eight and were in remote Scotland for several days with Scouts doing all sorts as young teens. They are the best memories of their childhood.

The problem is there's a moral element to it. Clearly "good parents" keep their children safe. Letting a 3 year old play out unsupervised would clearly be negligent but as children get older, it's all about shades of grey and individual circumstances, but it's easy to hit purity spirals and see "safe" as a binary with everything else being "unsafe". If I haven't explained what I mean well, read a car seat ERF thread

I think threads where clusters of parents are overly anxious about letting children (without additional needs) go on residentials and do things like send air tags or stay in hotels nearby have hit social contagion and purity spirals on an unrealistic standard of "safe" that is out of touch with children's needs and the benefits they get from a gentle, appropriate build up of independence.

I've found 20 years of youth groups helpful in maintaining a sense of perspective about what children are capable of with raising my own.

The hard bit is where we've lost safety in numbers. I'm happy to let mine play out as was common in the area 15 years ago, but there's no one avaliable to play out with. The culture was seriously inhibited by Covid restrictions prohibiting it as they hit a sensible age with it and they've ended up where playing together means gaming together online. Also the formalisation of childcare and activities means they don't want a casual kickabout on the green when they spent the morning playing football in a formal team and have had several training sessions through the week and that comes with a loss of casual social connection.

I allow mine to go on trips if they want to, my oldest child (11) is SEN and she won't go, my youngest (10) went on camp last weekend with a club they attend, and will be going on school residential Wednesday- Friday this coming week.
Also a single parent, my oldest will not stay anywhere other than at home. Won't even go to her dad's, younger daughter is more confident although she still prefers to be at home.
I get the less freedom though because tbh I would need to know parents before allowing any sleep overs, only friends house my youngest has had a sleepover is next door

But that's about you, not them

I taught primary for over 20 years; retired now. I planned, organised and took Year 4, 5 & 6 pupils on many trips, educational and residential. In one year I did 14 trips, 4 of which were residential. It may have been a few years ago but it seems the same issues are occurring. Some kids had never slept anywhere except their own homes, some were very nervous, some parents were open about not trusting the staff attending, most kids (especially girls) wouldn't go if they couldn't share with certain others, or if they had to share with particular people. We got very used to addressing each issue and in all the years, very few kids did not attend. These were some of our strategies:-
We had a 'practice' 2 night sleepover weekend within the school where kids brought sleeping bags & slept on gym mats in their classrooms (familiar environment). They were encouraged to bring a favourite soft toy. Disco on the Friday evening, made their own pizzas, sing-song & hot drink before bed. All slept as knackered by then! Bushcraft & other activities the next day, film in the evening. Parents collected them Sunday morning. The kids had a ball & parents had a break. Hard on the staff but worth it.
If we had kids with specific needs, we would allow a parents of that child to come on the trip with them. I was also responsible for writing the risk assessments too & getting them signed off by the Heads (2 signatures).
If during the trip, a child was homesick & wanting to go home, we would consult their parent/s by phone. Usually they'd say for us to deal as we thought appropriate; can't remember any ever coming to collect their child!
I will say that the feedback from parents afterwards was overwhelmingly positive. As staff, we saw the kids in a very different light whilst away. They gained confidence (some hugely), supported & encouraged each other, & issues between them were rare. I loved taking them away; we had such fun & it allowed us as staff to really get to understand each child at a level not possible within the school day. From taking my Year 5 class to a posh hotel (all behaved impeccably as were overwhelmed by the oppulence!), to staying in a Youth Hostel, to playing hide & seek, armed with water blasters in a forest (staff against the kids who won). I hope some of them have as happy memories of those trips as I do.
My advice? Yes! Give your kids the opportunity to experience a residential. It will broaden their social skills, increase their self-confidence and is a milestone in their growing up.

But every generation has these cases. For my parents it was the Moors murderers. James Bulger’s murder was in 1993. Linda Bowyer was murdered in 1952 and Broadmoor continued to have sirens sounding in the local area until the 2020s.

My daughter is in guides and we had to say no to two overnight trips this year. She just wouldn’t cope, she autism and sensory processing disorder. It makes me so sad because I was a scout and I lived for camping trips but that’s the way it is unfortunately 😢

Try not to despair. As I child I hated overnight trips; I found them totally overwhelming and would just completely shut down (wouldn’t eat or speak or really do anything). At about age 16 I finally went on a trip I really wanted to go on, and loved it; after that I went away any chance I got. I just wasn’t ready before then. Your daughter will change as she matures, and she might surprise you with what she wants to do!

I work in a school and have seen the reluctance to’let go’ getting worse each year even before the pandemic (although even more so since). Parents asking if they can go too, wanting to call their child each evening. As a beaver/cub/Scout my child was very used to being away from home, even abroad on a couple of occasions for a week at a time. Yes it was an anxious time for us (more so as he has a serious medical condition) but I wanted him to be as independent as possible. He only went on trips he wanted to take part in and I fully trusted his leaders. When he went on his school camp he said that many of his classmates parents had tried to talk them out of going. They had a great time.

Different kids manage things differently. As a child I went on a residential in middle school and was homesick. Physically had the anxiety tummy aches and the runs a bit. I stayed but to my had to let me ring home. I did brownie camp fine. I did guide camp and went home early but that was more to do with a bully for a patrol leader. In high school I went abroad on a residential and was fine. I left home to go to uni at 18 and loved it. My sister however did less trips and when she left home for uni she lasted a weekend and quit.

My kids are different. My eldest has done brownie and guide overnight trips as well as a young leader residential. She is also doing an abroad trip. Her y6 residential was cancelled due to Covid but she didn’t want to go on the y7 trip that was offered at high school. My youngest hasn’t stuck at hobbies in general but has never done a residential. She refused the y6 on after I had paid for it. She was excited for ages then dropped out last minute. I was a bit cross as I lost the money but I couldn’t force her to go. She has panic attacks and is currently receiving CBT type therapy. She has refused the high school residentials that have been offered since. She does go for sleep overs with a friend and has camped with a friend and their family though.

If this is the first trip I can understand the anxiety. Through two different primary schools my dtr had 4 ‘away’ school trips. First one was 2 days overnight and because we live rural it was…1 mile from where we live. 😳But she was only p3 and similarly young for age (and undiagnosed asd) didn’t do anything for herself. I packed ‘clothes into bags ie wear all these together then change into these then wear these next day. Sorted.

Except she didn’t wear any of them and wore same thing for both days! No brushing of hair or teeth. Didn’t wear pjs. But the midnight feast/ sweets were eaten. Hey ho.

As the years went on the trip got longer and a bit further away I just addressed the anxiety by saying I would pick them up if they didn’t like it. Never got the call and she made her best friends on these trips not in the playground. And noticeably more indépendant.

If your child has real support the needs then discuss with school- from an inclusivity basis they should be accommodating.

re mollycoddling…it’s difficult to judge. I was a latchkey kid from age 7, went to guide/ scout camps every year (my only ‘holidays’ in my childhood), but UK today is a very different place from the 70/80’s.