To be horrified that Israel is slaughtering children at a rate not seen for ober

[ThisNattyTurtle]

Israel killed more children in 15 months than were killed in all the conflicts of the world in the last 4 years combined. Israel is killing children again now at an unprecedented rate and the UK is supporting it with weapons, money and intelligence.
Israel is committing genocide according to the UN, Amnesty and Human Rights Watch. Israel killed 159 Palestinians, including children, during the ceasefire - only 1 Israeli was killed in that time and that was a soldier in a friendly fire event.

Mumsnet HQ there are at least 3 threads about Ukraine still on AIBU, and many other political ones. Please do not hide this topic away in the other section again without at least explaining why UK involvement in the mass slaughter of children is not worthy of the front page. We are supporting a regime much worse than Russia, as much as Russia's regime is awful.

Jesus, this is getting ridiculous. You’re trotting out the same lines that have been discussed over the last 32 pages.

But again:

Hamas are a terrorist organisation. They act in bad faith. They took hostages to as bargaining chips in pursuit of getting Israel to release their prisoners. They did not release all the hostages because then they’d have no bargaining chips and because the Israeli government said that even if all hostages were released, the war would continue

Yawn this is exhausting - RTFT. We've already covered that Israel have said returning the hostages wouldn't stop the assault on Gaza. Given Israel are also violating international law in the other plaestnian territories that don't have Hamas and haven't taken hostages, it's almost like the hostages aren't motivating their behaviour.

@LilacPeer the “logic“ that is used is that if you support Israel (either wholly or partially) then you are pro killing babies.

it’s ludicrous and unhelpful. but its an easy way for people who either can’t or won’t understand a complex situation to use the situation to make them
feel good about themselves by proclaiming loudly that they are anti killing babies.

i find it a really grotesque use of the suffering of children in war as rhetorical flourishes to “win”arguments on the jnternet to be honest.

It’s not bullshit propaganda when it’s documented and evidenced.

Huh? I suppose when you were skimming over questions asked of you you also skimmed over every mention of how Hamas and Oct 7th were terrible and illegal.

You'll do absolutely anything to avoid a proper discussion, why are you even here if you don't want to actually engage in a debate?

Not more grotesque than “well it’s a war unfortunately kids are killed in wars”

That’s wholly unfair. I’ve not jumped to any conclusions or generalisations on this thread, solely responsed to posters own quotes. People on this thread have said that children being killed is just an unfortunate reality of war. In my opinion that is grotesque.

If you think discussing the death of children doesn’t have a place on the internet, then this isn’t the thread for you.

@2024onwardsandup If you wholly support Israel’s actions at this time then you are supporting the killing, maiming and starvation of children. There is absolutely no doubt about this.

That’s what we see on this thread. People saying basically that Palestinian children must die and suffer because Hamas exists.

If you support Israel as a country that is very different. We see many within Israel criticising the actions of the Israeli administration. It is entirely possible to support Israel but to also criticise it’s actions towards the Palestinians.

@Odras you’ve proved my point. Is that what people are saying? That children should die because Hamas exists?

Yes, that is what people have said. There are posters that have said “Hamas started it, what did they expect”, there are posters that have said “civilian death is just a consequence of war”

Hamas could stop civilian deaths in an instant if they stopped hiding in populated buildings and areas.

That’s certainly my understanding of it.

How do you justify their death and suffering?

are you stuck on a loop!?

1. the possibility of terrorists being in a populated area doesn’t give Israel the right to bomb it indiscriminately
2. Hamas are a terrorist organisation, no one can rely on them to act in good faith
3. if terrorists were hiding in populated areas of London, would we be ok to drop bombs there in order to eliminate the terrorists
4. civilians must be protected during war, so even if we could agree that bombing is necessary in order to eliminate Hamas…the blockades preventing food, water, power and aid from reaching civilians serves no purpose other than cruelty.

I agree.

None of us on this thread are pro killing babies! Saying it happens in wartime is a fact not something anyone wants.

Babies have been killed on both sides. I’m horrified by the babies Hamas killed and by the babies that have been killed by the IDF. Yet I do believe Israel has to rid themselves of Hamas as much as possible, whose stated aims are to keep attacking Israel & eradicate Jews.

Hundreds of people have taken part in the largest anti-Hamas protest in Gaza since the war with Israel began, taking to the streets to demand the group step down from power.

Masked Hamas militants, some armed with guns and others carrying batons, intervened and forcibly dispersed the protesters, assaulting several of them.
Videos shared widely on social media by activists typically critical of Hamas showed young men marching in the streets of Beit Lahia, northern Gaza on Tuesday, chanting "out, out, out, Hamas out".

Hamas said it condemned those who it accused of pushing "suspicious political agendas" and shifting the blame from Israel.

Pro-Hamas supporters downplayed the significance of the protests and accused the participants of being traitors.

The protests in northern Gaza came a day after Islamic Jihad gunmen launched rockets at Israel, prompting an Israeli decision to evacuate large parts of Beit Lahia, which sparked public anger in the area.

Israel has resumed its military campaign in Gaza following nearly two months of ceasefire, blaming Hamas for rejecting a new US proposal to extend the truce. Hamas, in turn, has accused Israel of abandoning the original deal agreed in January.

Hundreds of Palestinians have been killed and thousands displaced since Israeli military operations resumed with air strikes on 18 March.

One of the protesters, Beit Lahia resident Mohammed Diab, had his home destroyed in the war and lost his brother in an Israeli airstrike a year ago.
"We refuse to die for anyone, for any party's agenda or the interests of foreign states," he said.
"Hamas must step down and listen to the voice of the grieving, the voice that rises from beneath the rubble - it is the most truthful voice."
Footage from the town also showed protesters shouting "down with Hamas rule, down with the Muslim Brotherhood rule".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g71lk09npo

@Twiglets1

Don’t pretend that is it not a unique situation - and a “fact of war”. I hate to compare the numbers of Israeli and Palestinian children who have been killed because all children deserve safety and protection. The numbers are incomparable anyway. What does matter is that more children were killed in Gaza than any other conflict over a similar period. It matters that there are more child amputees per capita in Gaza because of Israeli actions than anywhere else in the world

If you unquestionably are happy to defend Israeli actions right now then you are supporting the killing, maiming and starvation of children on a unique scale. And I honestly think that some posters here don’t really care about that because they don’t see Palestinians as human beings I guess.

I don’t defend Israeli actions “unquestionably” - I believe the IDF have gone way too far as I am able to see both sides are to blame - Hamas and the Israeli government.

And it IS a fact of war that babies and children die in wars and more will be killed by the more “successful” side. This is one big reason why violent conflict should be avoided at all costs.

But why are so many children getting killed compared to other wars? Obviously Israel will be successful. They are have 4th largest military might in the world and are indiscriminately bombing and invading one of the poorest and right now, ultimately decimated, places in the world where the borders are all controlled. They control the food, they control the electricity. It would be impossible for them not to be “successful” They are quite simply punching down.

On October 7th 2023, Hamas chose to start a violent conflict against a far more powerful enemy @Odras and also chose to hide out in heavily populated civilian areas with a higher than average number of the population being babies and children.

They bear a great deal of the responsibility for the killings in Gaza, along with Netanyahu. As is being acknowledged by the anti-Hamas protestors in Gaza.

Wait, what?? You're having a disagreement with someone about documented fact? Ooooookay... 😳

Which side are you talking about? Both sides have hostages. One side has times more of them.

this post continues to blow my mind. I’ve stopped replying directly because people are so far into their own denial of their morality.

The number of people who are saying ‘I don’t condone killing innocent people including children but….’ LISTEN TO YOURSELF. There should be no BUT. The media has succeeded in their ‘othering’ of Palestinians because they don’t look like you. Try and think of how you’d feel if someone bombed your kids school, starved them and stopped them getting to hospital (or the hospital had been flattened) because a terrorist MIGHT be there.

Really genuinely think about it, if Israel’s intelligence and military is as good as it is, why do they have to bomb these buildings? Even if they DID have to bomb the buildings how have they not managed to kill them yet? I’ll tell you, they don’t want to! Why are they preventing aid and food to civilians?

why did Israel not progress to the next stage of the ceasefire if their main goal was to retrieve hostages?

people repeatedly stating what’s happened on October 7th (awful, disgusting) which was almost A YEAR AND A HALF OF BOMBING / STARVATION / WAR CRIMES ago do you really believe this is Israel ‘defending themselves’?

@WhatMummyMakesSheEats Yes I do believe Israel had to continue to try to eradicate Hamas before Hamas could succeed in their stated goal of eradicating Jews. Their actions showed they were committed to this goal.

Though I feel the Israeli government have gone too far now with things like preventing food & aid getting to civilians.