To no longer want to do late afternoon / evening parties

[MeowToffee]

My brother and SIL and their 3 kids live an hour away by car, but we don't drive and rely on public transport, so it's 3,5 hours for us (multiple buses - it's not a fun trip). Whenever they celebrate birthdays or invite us over for get togethers, they start around 4.00PM and include dinner, but we have to leave by 6 and even then it's really late for DD who usually is in bed by 7.30. Got another invite for a party at their house today, but I told my brother we can't make it - travelling for 7 hours just to spend 2 hours there is getting ridiculous, especially for DD - and we would love to come over some other time with DD to spend a day with them instead, or sleep over on a weekend... Anyway, he got upset because we chose not to have a car and should be flexible, and they're too busy for long visits. I feel like he is very fixated on the fact we don't have a car, while I think plenty of family members who live further away from each other just make it work and see each other less often but for longer stretches of time (they are used to having everyone basically around the corner - except us).

We're close and I don't want to fight. AIBU?

Or can’t you stay with one of the family members that live round the corner from them?

but really if your brother is ‘too busy’ for visits longer than 2 hours, surely he’d understand that you are also too busy to be spending 9 hours on a visit to his.

Well, like I said, in my world things are different. I don't have kids, but I have people to visit, and go to stay with people, who have kids when the visiting party can't come just for a day/a few hours.
Yes, it gets noisy, fractious etc, bedtimes can be messed up or more difficult than usual, cleanup happens among chaos or much much later when everyone's gone (or, often, while they're still around, because they muck in), with people nursing hangovers etc etc. But that's life with other people. You all get on with it and you all rub along.

They live an hour away, not the other side of the country so no they shouldn't be expected to host people overnight just so they can see them a few times a year.

There's a world of difference between having people over for an evening and hosting them overnight. Of course you need to host them the next day if you have people to stay. You need to reorganise where people are sleeping, make sure there's enough extra food in for the morning, potentially alter plans for the following day because you can't just leave guests to sort themselves out, especially if they don't have transport to go anywhere.

It's a completely different scenario and not one many people would be happy to agree to several times a year just so they can see their sibling and the kids see their cousin.

We have friends who are in a similar situation, but don’t live quite so far (1.5 hours by public transport). They’re always pushing to come over at 10am when we invite them at 1pm and it’s a bit frustrating. It means we have to rush on a weekend morning to clean and prepare food, while also doing our normal routine with the kids and taking the dog for a walk. Everything is rushed and stressful when it should be a relaxing weekend day for us too. While we love to host them, it does take the fun out of it a bit. We’ve invited them to stay overnight on a couple of occasions, but that involves more cleaning, washing bedding, entertaining and cooking multiple meals. We all lead busy lives and that’s not always easy to do.

Could you take a taxi instead if it’s a special occasion? In the grand scheme of things you’re saving a lot of money by not having a car, so the occasional taxi (if you can afford it) is a reasonable expense.

why?

Well, see my answer to a similar point above. When I was a kid, too, my family all lived scattered around the UK, so most people needed to stay overnight on visits, and yet we still managed to see each other and not catastrophically fall out.
Sure, the 'hosting' in my childhood and now is not generally what Martha Stewart and the like espouse or what people on MN seem to aspire to or expect. But I can only repeat myself – for people you care about, you all muck in, get on with it, improvise, so that you can spend time together.
In fact some of the 'problems', like people having to sleep in improvised places, on airbeds etc, or having to send people out to forage for food, all contribute to an emergency takeaway, etc, have become much loved and repeated memories and stories.

If the OP was the sort of person who didn't mind bedtimes being messed up and difficult, she wouldn't have this dilemma in the first place.

Most people aren't that intensely relaxed and need their own space, especially the day after a party. I don't have kids either but I'd only be happy to host a tiny proportion of my friends overnight (the ones who are intensely relaxed themselves, won't take offence at next-day hosting consisting solely of tea, and who can be relied upon to leave promptly).

What else can I say.
Different strokes.
I'm just glad I have a different group of people around me, and expected behaviour is different, from some of the posters on here.

In fact some of the 'problems', like people having to sleep in improvised places, on airbeds etc, or having to send people out to forage for food, all contribute to an emergency takeaway, etc, have become much loved and repeated memories and stories.

I crashed on a lot of friends' floors in my 20s when the afterparty accidentally went into the next day but one of the biggest joys of getting older is that "improvised sleeping arrangements" are no longer a thing.

But it doesn't sound like the OP is that kind of person, who would just roll worth it and not mind later bedtimes etc otherwise she wouldn't be stressing about her child not being in bed at a set time?

Also it's all well to say these things are what makes memories but it grows tiresome when you're the only one being put out. It doesn't sound like the OP would reciprocate in the same way hosting everyone several times a year overnight so it would always be her brother doing the overnight hosting.

Who is being horrible to her?

All her brother has said is she should get a car as it would make meet-ups a lot easier. That’s not bullying - it’s factual. It shouldn’t be on him as the driver to make allowances - if OP chooses not to drive then she needs to accept that means seeing less of her family.

Different strokes indeed, but the point of this thread is to advise the OP, who clearly doesn't think along your lines.

I was giving my experience and opinion, which is part of the point of MN threads. I just said 'different strokes'. The OP can obviously take or leave what I say (and what anyone else says).

The obvious answer is that you host!

There is a world of difference between hosting a party in the late afternoon/evening and having overnight guests, and in no way is the latter the "easy" option. Especially if the guests have kids! For starters, the child's bedtime is mid-party so there's a noise issue right there. And then there's the next day, when the party hosts just want to be left alone with their hangovers to do the clean-up without having to cater to other people...

Too right. If a 'few hours in evening' ended up morphing into 'overnighting' I don't think I'd bother hosting. Not everyone enjoys overnight guests, and not all family members are easy to host.

But like we always say about weddings, its an invitation not a mandate, so if its not going to work for the OP, then she is at liberty to decline.

There is a sense that your brother is equating effort spent to get to his place for special occasions with how much you want to spend time with them. Maybe he feels that you are saying you don't think it's worth the hassle. And some here will agree that multiple buses and 7 hour round trip is a hassle (myself also). He might also be frustrated that you have chosen not to have a car/drive whereas he has chosen this and the relative benefit it brings.

If I was your brother I'd be suggesting that you come over a bit earlier than everyone else so it makes it a more substantial visit - after all you are family and buses are the only option you have now. I'd also suggest prioritising such as children's birthdays over adult birthday events for a couple of years so you reduce the frequency. Family I have is spread out and we also "meet somewhere in the middle" where distance is concerned and find a venue we can all get to with equal effort.

How far is it by car?

OP says it’s an hour.

In fact some of the 'problems', like people having to sleep in improvised places, on airbeds etc, or having to send people out to forage for food, all contribute to an emergency takeaway, etc, have become much loved and repeated memories and stories.

Discomfort and hunger are not really my thing

Or mine, plus lack of bathrooms.
40 years ago I wouldn't have been bothered, but now I am.

Or mine, plus lack of bathrooms.
40 years ago I wouldn't have been bothered, but now I am.

It’s totally fine for them to organise things for whatever time they want. And it’s totally fine to say you can’t make it for whatever reason.

We have family who are a bit over 3 hours away. I’d never invite them to anything without also extending the invitation that they would spend the night. It’s fine if they don’t want houseguests, but it just will limit who is reasonably able to attend.

Join a car club and borrow a car for the afternoon?

This pretty much sums it up

Take out the information about cars and distances

It sounds like he just wants you to turn up at his for a couple of hours for specific things and then he can cross it off his list

You also mentioned that he's used to other people living around the corner

It sounds as if he needs reminding that the road goes both ways and he's just using the lack of car as a way to blame you.

I realise you don't want to have a row. If it's any consolation, I have noticed people who are all still driving and still try very hard to mould people to their convenience.

With little children, when my friends had little children, 4 pm would've been too late even if they only had a half an hour drive. By 6 pm they wanted to be thinking about getting them home for their tea and getting them ready for bed. A lot of children's parties seem to happen about 11 am.

people are so weird about cars, I have a feeling if you said that you simply wanted to meet earlier because of children's bedtime and because this is a pretty frequent event at your brother's, you would've got a lot more sympathy on this thread.

I wasn't trying to be flippant about Uber. I don't know which areas of the country are covered and which are not. When I moved to this area, I was genuinely surprised how many Ubers are operating. I knew there were lots of local cabs though because there are some tourist attractions. (Tiny ones but a hotel is being built).

@Notsosure1 just wanted to acknowledge your post

I'm sure it's different in London etc but where I live, it's definitely judged and seen as a source of awkwardness if you don't drive.

I dated someone who could never drive and he was really upset about people's reactions. To be fair both he and I are permitted to drive with our particular medical conditions. He actually never did it - he learned as a 17 year old bevause of parebt hassle - and I stopped recently because I felt so uncomfortable driving when it flared up. Running a car is expensive and conditions obviously affect insurance so I'm saving money.

then as a woman, I think some people assume you have driving anxiety or neurosis of some kind.

we met a couple at a picnic once where both didn't drive and people were horrified. It is perfectly feasible round here but still
upsets odd folk.