To not pay for an unwanted child?

[Anudawan]

Hypothetical.

it came up at work today.

if the pregnancy was a result of a one night stand, regardless of whether precautions were taken, if the man doesn’t want the pregnancy and the woman decides to continue, should he be able to opt out of child support?

my personal answer and I’m not sure on the nuance (ie do you have be on the birth certificate and thus can claim parental responsibility in order to be compelled to pay maintenance or a dna test to compel the man) my personal answer is no, he cannot or shouldn’t be able to opt out once the child is born. All sex (with a woman of reproductive age) carries the risk of pregnancy, you can lower the risk but never fully remove it. Abstinence is the only way to do that. To do the action you’ve got to be prepared for the consequences. It’s very easy to flippantly say ‘get an abortion’ but for some women that isn’t viable.

Yes this quite honestly. Neither of adopted DS parents wanted him, so they didn't have him. They gave him to me (via the courts obviously). And I pay for him. They have no say in anything to do with him and most people think that is entirely correct. And they don't and never have paid a penny towards his care.
The birth Dad doesn't pay child maintenance to me as he wants nothing to do with DS. I want DS so I am expected to foot the bill for him entirely. I took him on, it's my responsibility.
Should it really be different if his unwanted child lives with the birth mum? Personally I want useless and uncaring parents well away from these kids. People generally don't make a good job of parenting if they resent the child. And quite a lot of these dad's and some mum's completely destroyed their children.

They do, they have the option not to have sex with the woman they don't want a child with. It's really not hard.

Not having sex with someone you arent particularly attatched to and going through pregnancy to then give away the child or going through an abortion are hardly comparable.

As I have said, men have the exact same choice over their reproduction as women do. It just involves them not sticking their penis in someone unless they want to accept the responsibility.

You don't kill children put for adoption.

The point is women are not forced to provide in anyway for children they don't want. If a man doesn't want a child he should have a window of time once he's notified to terminate his parental rights and responsibilities. Just like women who give their child up are not held responsible for that child.

So women should just never have sex either then if they don't want a child.

Er yes. Actually I think contraceptives are more reliable than some posters would have you believe. My success rate with contraception was 100% but had no difficulty getting pregnant when I wanted.

But to answer your question- Options for women are 1. Be really, really careful about contraception.

1. Be prepared to have an abortion or give birth.

3 don' t have sex.

Well that almost trumps the post I said was one of the stupidest things I'd read on MN.

Women have no choice in dealing with an unwanted pregnancy. I don't know about you (I'm not sure if you are female or male) but it is something I have been very conscious of since I was sexually active.

So yes I've been very aware that I could become pregnant from sex and that would wholly be my responsibility because in our society men can easily walk away. I have been responsible for contraception which has sometimes given me horrible side effects. Most women i know accept this is the deal for us. Why can't men accept the deal for them?

sex is a risky activity
as it is the risk for the man is lower. He risks his future wealth , although not to the extent a woman does. He does not risk his future health (mental and physical) or indeed his life like a woman does.

yet here we are discussing if we should make sex less risky for men

@Firefly1987 this was a response to your question

@Slawbans yep, many men are unwilling to be honest about the risk they impose on women during sex.

But they do have choices if they want assuredly consequence-free ejaculation - a wank or vasectomy.

It really is that simple.

3 is just not really feasible for most people. Adults just never having sex or experiencing a full relationship (in the eyes of most people) because they don't want a child? It's extreme, and I say that as someone who is abstinent. The rules are clearly different for men and women.

Now you get it! The rules are different for men and women.
Men- choose where your sperm goes wisely or accept the financial burden.
Women- have an abortion or be prepared to raise a child alone including the risks to health, affect on career progression and heavy financial burden.

This actually brings up many ethical questions for any of us who are sexually active.

My personal feeling is that we are all responsible for protecting ourselves from STI's and pregnancy where applicable. A sensible woman having sex and not wanting pregnancy will use both the pill and insist on condoms with her partner. A man should be using condoms to avoid the aforementioned.

If both fail, it isn't unreasonable for either partner to say they are not in the position to bring up a child.

Before anybody gets offended. Lets be honest with ourselves. How many parents would probably encourage teenage sons or daughters to consider termination if a pregnancy occured.

@Bertiel33 I'm a woman but childfree so I seem to have a different perspective to most posters. I don't want a child for moral reasons and I know I never have to have one. If a woman has an unwanted pregnancy I doubt posters would say "fuck around and find out" or "should've kept your legs closed" but if a man came on here and said his gf is having a pregnancy HE doesn't want, oh boy the responses would be totally different. Why don't you say "women stay abstinent during all your fertile years if you don't want a baby"? Surely you don't think abortion is a good form of birth control?

Abstinence sounds pretty joyless tbh.

Perhaps all males, on reaching the age of consent, should have a vasectomy instead. Reversible only when prepared to acknowledge the reality of unplanned pregnancy, the responsibilities etc etc.

Win/win.

Those are not "rules" as such. It's how biology works.

If you (general you) want to have sex then you (general you) need to take on board the possible consequences. In the case of men the biological reality is once you've deposited your sperm in a vagina you've lost control of the consequences.

@DissidentDaughter well except for all the swathes of women that WANT children of course! But I'd totally get behind that idea. They could be offered cash incentives to get a vasectomy. Women who want kids are the ones who lose out if masses of men suddenly have vasectomies or a male pill is invented though. So as much as some women will say "get a vasectomy or don't have sex" they don't actually want all men to do that, because they want babies at the end of the day.

Sure, but biology doesn't make the man have to pay for the child that is created, society does.

Society makes both parents responsible.

Sorry, I honestly have no idea what point you're trying to make with that comment.

If I have a car accident where I hit a stationary vehicle and cause thousands of damage and it is a once off, I don’t want to interact with the other driver and they have a choice as whether they choose to get their car fixed.

Or adults are responsible for all their actions.

It’s the child who will suffer and they had no say in being born so no, the father should pay, they should have two parents supporting them

I find it interesting how in a situation where an unwanted or unplanned pregnancy occurs, lots of posters seem to be sympathetic to the man, but the woman in this situation is being ignored and treated as making an active choice, just because she doesn't get an abortion?

Abortion isn't contraception. There are many factors that influence whether a woman feels able or willing to get an abortion. Yet for some reason it's seen as her choosing pregnancy and him not, even though they both (hopefully) equally chose to have sex, knowing pregnancy is a risk.

Weird misogynistic attitude.

You actually see that a lot on mumsnet? Even when the OP's post isn't even about pregnancy choices!!

As well as direct posts questioning why a woman would continue with a pregnancy in the OP's situation, you also more indirectly see lot's of "you shouldn't have had a baby until you had x", "why did you have a child with this man", etc.

No because the woman could've opted out of the pregnancy. If she's continuing the pregnancy the odds are pretty high she actually wants the child...it's a bit different paying for something you wanted and chose to have vs something you didn't.

@Firefly1987 I reckon there are decent blokes aplenty who do want kids.

A reverse vasectomy would be The Sign of reaching ‘real manhood’… a bit like the first swim without armbands 😂