To not pay for an unwanted child?

[Anudawan]

Hypothetical.

it came up at work today.

if the pregnancy was a result of a one night stand, regardless of whether precautions were taken, if the man doesn’t want the pregnancy and the woman decides to continue, should he be able to opt out of child support?

my personal answer and I’m not sure on the nuance (ie do you have be on the birth certificate and thus can claim parental responsibility in order to be compelled to pay maintenance or a dna test to compel the man) my personal answer is no, he cannot or shouldn’t be able to opt out once the child is born. All sex (with a woman of reproductive age) carries the risk of pregnancy, you can lower the risk but never fully remove it. Abstinence is the only way to do that. To do the action you’ve got to be prepared for the consequences. It’s very easy to flippantly say ‘get an abortion’ but for some women that isn’t viable.

If you don’t want the risk of child maintenance bag it. That simple

Not actually that simple as the bag could well break. However, be that as it may, the choice to have sex also includes knowing that if the bag breaks then you still have to be held accountable for it.

This is what I have drummed into all my sons. With a side serving of ‘whole it won’t ruin your life per se, it definitely won’t be the same quality of life you would have had otherwise, limits opportunities’ blah blah. Basically, if I want to have sex with this woman, and am not exactly where I want to be in life in order to have children, and with that person, am I happy for my life to go to pot if this should happen. That’s what they need to ask themselves each and every time before deciding to have sex.

ETA, I’ve also given the talk on it doesn’t matter if she claims she is on contraception, is infertile, or is allergic to condoms. Basically if it’s not on, then it’s not on, and if it is on, it’s on the basis that they are happy for that to be their life if condom breaks or whatnot.

So if a man says "I will have date or have a relationship with you but I wont sleep with you" as I dont want to have a child how will they go down with the "I demand us to have a baby" partners?

Women complain constantly they cant get a partner, spend endless energy and effort trying to get one, do heaps of online dating, now they have to find one who wants a child immediatley with them? or they wont sleep with each other?

People holding off sleeping with each other would be a great step forward and reduce the incidence of so many difficult situations. I know married couples who have abstained to avoid any risk of pregnancy. People need to think more carefully about the consequences of sex.

I dont disagree but do you honestly think 99% of couples would do this?, how many women are desperate for a child on here alone?

Yes, men get away with enough already and already have an entitled attitude. Plus they get paid more than women, still.

Both parents are equally responsible for the creation of a child - they were both there at conception.

Someone has to pay. If it's not the man, it's the state and taxes would have to rise.

I do think more than 1% of couples will be responsible enough to consider the consequences and take appropriate action. When my DH had his vasectomy I accepted the very small risk it could fail and I'd end up pregnant. I do agree a lot of people wouldn't hold back from sex in this over-sexed society. A change in attitudes (and alternatives to intercourse as an end goal sexually) would be needed.

Tell the hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian men who have died or suffered life-changing injuries defending their countries freedom about their "entitled attitude".

What does this have to do with the thread? Precisely nothing. 🙄

Again I dont disagree but doubt it, but if a survey was done how many men actually want children to women?

Women are told to immedialty leave and find someone else if their partner does not want children

But they already know that there’s the possibility of a child if they have sex. That’s when they are effectively signing the contract. By choosing to have intercourse they are agreeing to take the risk of getting a woman pregnant. They really should teach this stuff in schools.

Not the right guy. Definitely not.
Have some fun post divorce sex? Yep, go for it!!
With this guy? No, run a mile!!

What does "men getting away with enough already and having an entitled attitude" have to do with anything? It's no different to the misogynistic rubbish usually reserved for 4chan or Tait.

Most men are capable of taking responsibility. For using protection, for raising their children, for paying child maintenance and for sacrificing their lives to protect the vulnerable.

But what that means is his contribution is only a top up to lift the children out of poverty.
He does not see it that he should be paying 50%. Well at least his view is out in the open and women can sleep with him at their peril.

He could've opted out. He chose to opt in. He chooses the minute he choose to jizz in her. He could've chosen not to.

To be honest I think your right the person/people who choose to have the baby should pay for it the way they qualify for support as main carers

Yes. "Men know better, men can go without" but really the sort of men "accidentally" fathering kids are not the high functioning, well thought out, didn't have sex until adulthood/mature discussions on sex-contraception type are they...

I think forcing a woman to have an abortion is disgusting 100% but there should be a LEGAL way for men who can't/don't want/not able to care for a child to give up parental responsibility the way women have fostering/adoption

"Getting out paying child support" is also thrown around as an easy, cheap thing to do but unless your self employed/willing to risk years of debt/have a solid tax dodge on the go it's actually not as easy as it's made out to be.

Well they do teach it in schools don’t they? That’s why 15 years olds are out there having the same debate we are, 30 years older and wiser. You could argue we should’ve matured enough to settle on it?

Men have plenty of opportunities to avoid pregnancy. But every pregnancy happens because a man impregnates a woman. Sex has a risk of pregnancy. It’s a no brainer.

if a man doesn’t want a child he must take responsibility for his own fertility and contraception, or abstain.

Ooh the big bad right. The one that's growing among young men?

Surprise! Women are in the Ukraine armed forces, including frontline roles, including conscripted personnel. Also, completely unrelated to the topic of children needing support from their parents.

Pregnancy is a risk of having sex. If men want to avoid the risk then don't have sex. I agree with other than the child maintenance needs to be toughened up - why can't it be done through PAYE for example or included on tax returns They can manage student loans that way.

I think that's usually when a man doesn't want children ever, rather than that they don't want them right now. That is a significant issue.

I feel like that would be ripe for abuse lots of blokes say they want kids too. Then vanish when pregnancy announced. Also how about multiples, I had twins, I’m wondering if it could be argued that you were only trying for one so only paying for one? Cms has a hard enough time getting money out feckless fathers why give them more hurdles?

Honestly if you don’t want kids take responsibility for contraception, condoms or if not wanting kids in future vasectomy.

Once a child is here it’s really about their rights to be supported and have a relationship with parents.

Am I the only woman in the world who, before having sex for the first time, told the guy that if I got pregnant he'd be a father because I wouldn't be having an abortion? At least he couldn't claim he wasn't fully informed.

Maybe there needs to a little phrase that is taught to make people think more. A bit like a pet is for life for not for Christmas. I'm not creative enough to come up with it but along the lines of "OK for a night but would you want to see them every other weekend."