To not pay for an unwanted child?

[Anudawan]

Hypothetical.

it came up at work today.

if the pregnancy was a result of a one night stand, regardless of whether precautions were taken, if the man doesn’t want the pregnancy and the woman decides to continue, should he be able to opt out of child support?

my personal answer and I’m not sure on the nuance (ie do you have be on the birth certificate and thus can claim parental responsibility in order to be compelled to pay maintenance or a dna test to compel the man) my personal answer is no, he cannot or shouldn’t be able to opt out once the child is born. All sex (with a woman of reproductive age) carries the risk of pregnancy, you can lower the risk but never fully remove it. Abstinence is the only way to do that. To do the action you’ve got to be prepared for the consequences. It’s very easy to flippantly say ‘get an abortion’ but for some women that isn’t viable.

Men don’t get pregnant. It’s not their bodies. HTH.

BTW abortion is healthcare not a perk.

Child's needs need to be prioritised once they're here.

Both parents are responsible for their presence, end of, so both parents need to be legally obligated to support the child.

This is one of those subjects that I can’t really believe grown adults debate with gusto. It reminds me of gcse debate in 1995, where people say dumb things that no one who isn’t 15 would think reasonable or smart

No

No you can't opt out of your own child's life just because they weren't expected. Where would that end?

A woman choosing whether to undergo a medical procedure which can often leave her with psychological scars if it wasn't truly her choice, or to go through a potentially life threatening 9 month process which will change her body and brain irrevocably is not even comparable to a man's role, so until men's bodies bear the same responsibility for bringing children into the world, they don't get the same rights.

Know two men who had child from one night stand. Both co parent well probably better than most as both parents in each case were clear they didn't want a romantic relationship with each other.

I disagree that how the child was conceived doesn't matter. I don't think fathering a child should absolutely always result in supporting the child, just as I don't think it automatically means the father should have rights to the child.

I think it's ridiculous in some parts of the US we have women convicted of sexually abusing boys and those boys are still liable for child support (I've not yet heard of UK cases and the US cases I'm thinking of specifically involve boys), just as I think it is ridiculous if a girl or woman continues with a pregnancy after a rape that the father could try to claim parental rights to the child. I think if a child is conceived through sexual violence, especially if it's proven in court, that the normal rules should not apply.

Personally, I think the choice to continue a pregnancy to term should involve considering the responsibility to care for the child on one's own. No child support law is going to make any difference if the other parent dies or disappears overseas, so whether it's a one night stand or a long standing marriage, it's something either parent should equally consider.

I wouldn't waste head space feeling sorry for men in this situation. When it comes to sex, reproduction and parenthood, women overwhelmingly have far more shit to deal with then men do. Id say handing over money every month is getting off lightly in comparison.

All actions have consequences. Contraception isn't 100% safe. The only way to be 100% safe is to not have sex. Every time a couple have sex, even if contraception is used, there's always a chance of pregnancy, regardless of how slim it may be. Therefore, every man should know when he has sex, that there's always a potential for that action to result in a pregnancy. If you're adult enough for sex, then you're adult enough to take the responsibilities that having sex can bring.

Don’t do the deed if you don’t want the responsibility of a child. Or at least put something on the end of it to reduce the risk. 🍆A lot of men seem to think the responsibility of contraception falls on women.

If you roll the dice the game. Almost all heterosexual sex between fertile couples has a chance of creating a pregnancy.

Men already do have an opt out clause if it's a one night stand. Anyone stupid enough not to use condoms risks more than just pregnancy.

Unfortunately, it is on the woman to insist upon using condoms as she will be the one left, literally, holding the baby. In the rare event of burst condom, failed morning after pill, and on the few fertile days in the month that's a horrifically unlucky situation.

People lie. Why would you ever trust a ONS to have even given you his real name? Even if they did, if all you know is their name you're not getting CMS so therefore man has opted out of paying for any resulting child.

CMS can't find someone without personal information to track them down.

Im trying to figure out what you’re getting at here. Do you think mothers on the whole get too much child maintenance from fathers? And why PAYE? How would self employed people who don’t use PAYE contribute? 🧐

I don't understand the voting so might have voted wrongly but when you have sex you take the risk that a baby will be conceived. That's just a fact.

You were responsible for creating it, you should be responsible for caring for it. You don't get to opt out because you don't want to deal with the consequences of your actions.

For anyone asking what if the "pwoor man was tricked by the mean baby woman", grow up. You can't rely on a strangers word that they are on the pill/infertile etc.

It's up to both people to take steps to stop conception, not just the woman. I'm so fed up of women being expected to be the person to deal with contraception.

Also, let's be honest, child matainance is pennies. If a man is even going down this road, he's unlikely to be active dad so the main impact to him will be him paying a pittance every month and doing very little else won't have much if an impact on HIS life.

In all instances my answer is the same…

the risk of pregnancy is always there when engaging in vaginal sex with a woman of reproductive age, you can take certain precautions to drastically lower the risk, but no one method is 100% effective 100% of the time, and we all know this. So the only way to be 100% sure to avoid pregnancy is to not engage in vaginal sex.

whats the alternative compelling women into abortions because Johnny doesn’t want to grow up?

The flip side of this is that you can then argue that a woman can be compelled to carry a baby she doesn't want but the man does, and that he is prepared to be a single father of without her involvement.

I know of one such real life situation and the father was devastated when the woman terminated.

Yet here you are… commenting

This

How would you police that? Surely it’s a ‘he says she says’ situation at this point? How do you ‘prove’ the woman was lying to entrap the male? Surely any woman who does that would get the free prescription but not take them.

Also, I disagree - the man can choose not to have sex. You shoot your load, you play Russian Roulette with your future, each and every time, regardless of any safeguards you put in place. They only mitigate the risk of conception, they don’t remove it and you know that from the outset. You need to nut up and accept the consequences of your choice if it goes against you.

This said as a woman who has fallen pregnant twice while both on the pill (taken regularly as prescribed) and using high quality condoms…I chose not to take either of those pregnancies to term but if I had, why on earth should I be the only one on the hook when we both made the choice to have sex?

Why wouldn’t I be? I’m here to tell the WHAT ABOUT ABORTION I FEEL SORRY FOR MEN WHAT ABOUT IF HE SAYS SHE TRICKED HIM types that they sound like dimwits

The type that have men with microphones and a lot of opinions on women, such as body counts, ‘feminine’ women, condemning OF creators whilst consuming porn themselves etc

Why is it being a one night stand relevant? What if it was a fling, FWB etc? That would only work if it was extended to say unless any pregnancy was planned (and what, we need to written proof of that?) If the man asks for an abortion and the woman declines then he can opt out of caring for his child financially? If it wasn't planned then it being one night or a 15 year marriage with 3 previous children is completely irrelevant. They knowingly had sex with someone who is capable of getting pregnant, the mutual responsibility is exactly the same.
Being married or wanting a hook up with a stranger does not affect the likelihood of conception.

No it doesn’t.

abortjon is healthcare and used for many reasons, including but not limited to terminating unwanted pregnancies. There are also many reasons for unwanted pregnancies including consent, age, health implications. Not all pregnancies are a result of consensual intercourse.

you cannot apply the same argument to abortion access. Only the right does this.

A man should control his fertility or take the consequences.