To wonder if all those gleeful about PIP cuts are going to welcome people with serious mental health conditions as colleagues and employees?

[Somethingthecatdraggedin7]

Given the amount of ableisism I see on MN I think the likelihood of people welcoming people with serious mental health conditions into their workplace is pretty low.
And yes, these people will very likely now be forced to try to work even though their condition makes it impossible. We are not just talking about some lazy twenty year old who expects to sit at home gaming due to his “anxiety” as many people seem to believe is the case. It will be people with significant impairments to social functioning.
Even if they get support to apply for jobs, and even if they then get the position (doubtful) how accommodating will colleagues or customers be if the person seems a bit odd, or gets adjustments workmates deem unfair?
This is going to be a total shit show.

Lets face it, probably not. We will probably shimmy down same route as Canada and let people choose suicide rather than poverty.

There will be a significant rise in the number of MN threads about “my colleagues off on sick leave again!!!!!”.

They will be the very first on here bitching and moaning that they’re picking up the slack of a colleague who has had to take another sick day for reasons they don’t understand.

Yep.

I am now in a position where I don’t have to work (not means tested benefits related - inheritance and dh related) but I’ve had poor health all my life (now on highest rates of PIP indefinitely / ongoing). I’ve never been able to keep a job due to frequent sickness. I wasn’t popular with my co workers!

Also, these cuts aren’t just for MH problems. There are many people going to be forced into the workforce who have been deemed for a very, very long time unable to do so and will physically struggle.

Well, according to a lot of the absolute cunts on the other threads, poor mental health is actually just an excuse so presumably, everyone currently receiving disability benefits for these, will be 'found out' and suddenly well and working!

See also ME, CFS and fibromyalgia - all made up shit I tell ya!!!

How do you suggest we fund millions of people that cannot work, in addition to an ageing population?

Clearly those who are physically unable to work should not. But many people are able to contribute significantly despite various difficulties with adjustments and support. Rewarding for them and for the rest of society.

Almost 10 million people economically inactive between age 16-64 (out of a population of 44 million of same age) is not sustainable or viable for any country. That is a quarter!

We don't yet know exactly what the government has planned yet. I find it unlikely that making it harder to claim pip will force people with serious mental health conditions into work. The government has been clear that people with the most serious conditions will be protected.

I do agree but I started this particular thread because I think the main target is mental health as stated by Wes Streeting recently and mental health typically scores lower on Pip points

No they won’t. I once got a job, that was a partnership between a disability charity and a large corporation, with the intent of helping to get people with my disability into the workplace, I lasted a week the hostility was off the charts tbh. I’m lucky I now have an incredibly understanding boss who’s disabled and very very very pro hiring other disabled people and understanding that comes with that. (But that is sadly very very rare imho)
but for a large portion people are like, get off benefits and into the workplace but not my workplace.

Isn’t it outlined in a paper? I’ve seen quotes in what they’re planning.

Instead of complaining about people on benefits they will be complaining about their colleagues' adjustments. They just want disables people to perform exactly the same way as non-disabled people.

Tax the richest more. Simples. We must pay in to the system proportionally to our wealth to ensure a more equitable society and look after all citizens.

This is a financial matter, not an emotive one. Unless you can tell me how we will raise an extra 5-10 billion, year on year every year, to meet the ever rising need of the welfare state, all conversation is pointless.

Ok, how do we do that? What sums will be raised and how?

Didn't take long for people to attempt to derail this did it?

YANBU OP. My last employment was a disaster. They wouldn't make any reasonable adjustments for me because "we have to be fair to everyone" meanwhile able colleagues could basically do what they wanted.

Edited to reflect that more than one person has now tried to derail while I was typing. 🙄

I do agree, but the waters are more muddied than this by the fact that most serious mental health disorders manifest physically. MH disorders can cause blackouts, chronic muscle pain, rapid heartbeat, extreme physical fatigue and all sorts else.

The “it’s all in your head, just get on with it” crew do need this underlined quite heavily. The head controls the body and when the head isn’t doing its job the entire physique pays the price. It’s not cut and dry.

I don't think they understand the reality i got taken from work to hospital as i was in psychosis and was having strong homicidal thoughts it could of ended really badly if it wasn't for me being lucky to have an amazing manager who knows me well

Yeah, when people talk positively about euthanasia soothing noises are made about the small savings in the cost of implementation versus the medical savings.

I bet that changes drastically when you get into the savings in the welfare bill.

Maybe start with the corporations who get away with major tax avoidance. An estimated 13bn is said to be lost through corporate tax avoidance. 2 billion from 7 US companies in one single year.

You know, punch up - not down at the weakest and most vulnerable people in the country.

Oh, I don’t think many people honestly think that employers will magically become more understanding of and accommodating to disabled and chronically sick people.

Nor that the already tough jobs market will magically expand to provide vastly more opportunities.

I think we all know that this is just aimed at cutting costs, while passing the blame for the misfortune of the sick and disabled to the sick and disabled themselves. And therefore absolving government and wider society of any moral obligation to help.

But the moral implications of this will mean those sick and disabled people are not only unable to get a job, but unable to survive as well.

I've written about my experience a couple of times on here before, but I'll recount it again as it's appropriate.

When I was working for a major disability charity, I began to experience health problems due to an element in the environment and I brought it up at one meeting with my manager. They could see how it was affecting me and told me they'd sort it out (it was a minor thing and didn't inconvenience anyone else). At the next meeting, I was told it had been sorted. Only it hadn't. I was confused and didn't know how to respond (autism) so I stuck it out a bit longer then left as the problem continued. It was pure gaslighting on their part. Awful. I quit my career completely and now do lone working on a part time basis. My health and sanity are 100% improved.

And this was a disability charity.

There is no hope.

The benefit cuts are not intended to get disabled people back into the workforce - employers don't want disabled people. Most pay lip service, but the reality is most employers consider disabled people an inconvenience. Everything is about money and employers would generally prefer not to have to make "reasonable adjustments" if there is a candidate who doesn't need them.

The cuts are purely to save money, obviously. Benefit cuts are always designed to reduce outlay, either by reducing the amount someone can claim or reducing entitlement. The effect on someone who cannot work is irrelevant to Labour's decision, the human aspect is not even a secondary concern.

Well of course they don't want them as colleagues. They will have to take on the shit jobs that someone else does. You know, like fruit picking that all the foreigners used to do.