To be really cross about the proposed cuts?

[Byjimminy]

And feel really effing sorry for those with genuine anxiety and depression - it is disabling!

Already seeing threads in MH with people despairing in anticipation of cuts. As if mental health services haven't already been decimated beyond recognition already. GP appointments as rare as hen's teeth, CAMHS and access to decent therapy is next to non-existent, the conservatiives slashed all the support workers and sure start centres and we've had the worst pandemic in decades (centuries?) - long covid is thing too! And now people are just self diagnosing/making up mental health issues? How the hell anyone believes anyone manages to claim PIP without a proper diagnosis is insanity itself.

I completely agree with this article: https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/wes-streeting-overdiagnosis-mental-health-adhd-b2716618.html

I know there will be umpteen threads on this already, but maybe some others like me just want to let stuff out in frustration and have a fresh place to say it. To think this is a labour government making these decisions BEFORE putting the services in place to actually help and treat people is beyond comprehension.

When you start by saying "those with genuine... " it's an admission that many aren't, and far too many take advantage of the system. I'm pleased it's being tightened.

It barely makes a dent in the ballooning cost of it all. More cuts will be required before long. Hopefully they’ll have supporting services in a better state by then.

Self diagnosis and diagnosis by a GP are two completely different things. I expect there are many people who self diagnose from the Internet and try to garner support without. How on earth are people without a proper diagnosis claiming PIP? If a GP agrees with their patient's suspicions, then a diagnosis is made. A GP diagnosis should mean something! If a medically qualified doctor cannot determine what is and what isn't a defined condition, how the hell can anyone else? I just don't get it. Doctors either know what they're talking about or they don't. If they don't then surely that is an issue with the medical profession, not the benefits system?

I feel like people have gone to great pains to make out mental health is no different to physical health, when it simply isn’t true.

Let’s say I go to the GP complaining of anxiety symptoms. I’d probably be diagnosed with anxiety. However why am I anxious? Is it the adverse experiences I had as a child? Is it my stressful job? Maybe I’m not anxious at all - maybe it’s OCD? The human brain is so complex, it’s not like a computer where you can source the bug and fix it. I’m not even sure symptoms do fit into diagnostic boxes at all. It seems like a lot of guess work.

As for the treatment… well there are hundreds of parents on this website alone with anxious/autistic/adhd teens who won’t leave the house and se unlikely to work in the near future. Often the parent is saying ‘this wouldn’t be happening if they’d had the right support’ but what does that mean? Often it means hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of therapy which frankly may or may not have worked. It’s not surprising the NHS can’t keep up when all of a sudden we have hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people wanting diagnosis/therapy/meds for something which until 7 or 8 years ago was reasonably rare. MH treatment isn’t the silver bullet it’s made out to be on here, it’s very expensive and often ineffective beyond letting the person vent and feel a bit better for a few hours.

I don’t work in benefits but I meet benefit claimants every day and listen to them describing their circumstances. I would say benefits have been a huge mistake for 80% of them - the benefits have frankly enabled them to make whatever the qualifying problem was much worse. Anxious people who have been paid to stay at home for 5 years are now positively terrified of the outside world. Men who are a bit feckless and found it hard to hold down a job, have used their UC to spend years smoking weed and addling their brains to the point they’re actually unemployable now. These people exist in the hundreds in my town alone. If they had had to work out of necessity back when their issues were smaller, rather than being allowed to drop out of society at the expense of the taxpayer, I reckon they’d be in a much better place.

I was diagnosed with anxiety and depression in 2022, I take medication for it and I work full time and have since my diagnosis. I have a couple of colleagues on anti-anxiety medication. I don't regard having either condition as a reason not to work. Yes, there are mornings when my anxiety is bad and effects my breathing but there are techniques I've learned to control it. I'm not saying either condition is easy to live with because that's not true but sitting at home stewing isn't going to improve anything either.

Surely you aren’t so ignorant that you think everyone who has anxiety and / or depression can function at the same level as you? 🤦🏼‍♀️

My dh has severe depression and bipolar. He is now working full time but he had a complete breakdown some years ago where he literally ceased to function. He could not work, at all. He was completely disabled by anxiety and his mental health. He’s finally found a cocktail of medication that works for him and he’s now relatively stable but it’s incredibly naive to assume everyone with anxiety and depression can just pull their socks up on get on with it.

Totally agree with you both!👏🏼

Read my post again. I talked about anxiety and depression treated with medication. I have not mentioned Bi polar or a mental breakdown in my reply nor did the OP, both of which are very serious and separate conditions. The arrogance is yours, not mine. As for naivety, I'm talking about my experience which should also be crystal clear.

You haven’t made it clear at all. Anxiety and depression are spectrum conditions in themselves. You’ve literally said you don’t regard either condition as making someone unable to work. That is incredibly ignorant.

You’ve got to be kidding. Do you really think that GPs are skilled in diagnosing mental health conditions?! People learn how to give the ‘right’ answers to questions.

I think that people with mental health conditions should get basic universal credit, but not extra for disability. Then watch the numbers claiming plummet.

I've suffered from anxiety after losing a younger sibling at a young age. I had multiple panic attacks when I returned to work 2 weeks after their death. I kept going and got through it by taking citalopram. I know there are people who couldn't have done this but I know some people who would have played on this to not go back to work.

I don’t know, I’m kind of looking forward to it, my ex hasn’t worked in 10 years playing the mental health card, he could definitely get a job! It’s been 10 years! There are definitely some people that play the system. Shame for the others but it does need tightening

Well obviously if a person has suffered a mental breakdown or is suicidal then they are not fit to work and furthermore they wouldn't be attending work anyway as their doctor would sign them off.

I'm conflicted. I absolutely support a good benefits safety net, for those who need it. I also know many people "signed off" without much diagnosis. Myself included. When I was suffering stress at work, coypled with sknebissies in my personal life, GP signed me off without even speaking to me, I just asked the receptionist if it might be possible to have a couple of weeks and that was renewed for 3 months.

I was in a bad way, but no doctor investigated that.

I don't know if I could have carried that on through a benefits claim, but it surprised me how easy it was to get 3 months off work. Having never had any kind of medical certificate in the previous 30 years of work, I always thought a doctor's note "proved" you were ill.

Either way, we can't sustain a situation where so many people are long term sick/disabled with MH issues and there's a part of me that "knows", from my own experience at least , that really the best thing that can happen is being forced to take some responsibility for your own recovery.

I think that's the case in an awful lot of what afflicts us in the modern world. We've reached an place where we expect the NHS to fix us when really a lot of lot has to start with us. Obviously that won't apply to everyone, but why cant we say that to those it does.

I'd like to see campaigns about taking personal responsibility for our health, but I know it would be considered outrageous.

I often see the argument that people with cancer aren’t expected to work - yet I’ve seen people with cancer fight on to work as much as possible but perception is mh means all or nothing in terms of work. Evidence does suggest working can improve depression and anxiety (not including toxic environments). Not sure the government’s approach is right and feels like we have a Tory government, which is a bit unexpected.

And you are an example of somebody who can work alongside MH issues. Some can’t. I’d quite like to work, I did right up until my breakdown 6 years ago. Now I don’t leave the house except for MH appointments. I suffer psychotic episodes. I self harm daily. I have had suicide attempts. 8 or more inpatient stays. Sectioned 6 times. I’ve tried multiple meds. Seen umpteen psychiatrists. Been on many waiting lists for issues. Who would employ me?

I don't think anyone's suggested everyone away from work with MH issues could work, but that some could.

I'm sorry you've experienced all of that as it sounds horrific. No, I was talking about myself and people like myself whose anxiety and depression can be managed and controlled by medication. A breakdown and psychotic episodes are an entirely different situation.

What it sounds like to me is that it's mental health services that are missing (have been decimated and ignored for decades) and opportunities for people to bridge the gap gradually between being too unwell to work and fully back at work. Pp mentioned about looking at what's behind anxiety - often stuff that needs dealing with in therapy, but waiting lists are a joke! You have to be seriously unwell to get anything on the NHS, even then waiting lists are over a year. Private therapy is £££. Finding employment and suitable workloads for anyone who has (or cares for someone with) a fluctuating illness (mental health related or otherwise) is a key issue. Many of these types of things had been put in place under the last Labour government and were slashed in austerity by the tories. Now we're picking up the pieces of the long term impact. These things need addressing first before slashing people's income even more when the COL has never been higher, is only going to compound people's issues further! It's quite evil really.

Mental health condtions dont just consist of anxiety which in many cases can be self diagnoseed
When i was a mentsl health nurse there were loads of pstients with severe and enduring mental health condtions that would never have been able to wotk.

All people with mental health conditions?

What about those who suffer with psychotic illness,schizoaffective dosorders ,Bipolar mood disorders etc?

I think it’s wrong. It’s not what I would expect from a Labour government. They need to be taxing the mega rich, and big corporations before they take from the poorest and the most vulnerable. No denying there are a few who play the system but a life on benefits is not fun.

Let’s hope none of us here needs these benefits to survive on in the future should anything happen to us because they won’t be there, and that is scary. But as long as the rich stay rich, who cares right.

My dh has mental health issues but got 6 months full paid sick leave and also has access to income protection insurance which will pay out 67% of his income (cap 200k) after the 6 months lapses as well as fully paid paternity leave. He also has access to therapy and other treatments under private health insurance, he gets signed off by OH as he has daily appointments that are quite difficult to juggle with full time work. The only thing he paid for was adhd diagnosis and meds which came up to over 2k, think his private medical bills must have come up to 30k and he basically get appointments within days or at the worst weeks.

What is this - socialism for bankers and unbridled capitalism for everyone else? Most people don't get such a deal. But the little they get, the government is trying to take away.

Anxiety is insidious and that's the problem. Most anxiety disorders develop either because of hormonal unbalance, in which case it responds well to medication, or sue to lack of resilience, usually as a result of poor exposure.

Anxiety is extremely debidebilitating and the instinctive response to it is to seek avoidance for relief. Unfortunately, the more one relies on avoidance to feel better, the higher the anxiety when faced with more triggers. The sad reality is that the only way to treat, or at least to learn to cope with chronic anxiety and depression is gradual exposure.

This is what the government is now focusing on. Limiting the time of avoidance whilst encouraging early exposure. When you're in the throw of anxiety, it feels like a gesture devoid of any empathy. When you feel better or recover, it feels like the trigger that became a blessing.

Young people especially need to be targeted. Starting in teenage years a lifetime of chronic anxiety is not the way to live life and be part of a functioning society. There is much support available already but the biggest support needs to come from inside oneself, with the help of family and friends.

Another person who thinks the answer comes from tax big corporations and ‘the wealthy’. Sigh! Chartered Tax Advisor here. That’s no solution. The higher rate tax payers already pay much more than other equivalent nations. Wealth taxes have proven to be counterproductive wherever they have been tried. Corporation taxes are international. It’s being tackled but there is nothing the UK can do as a stand alone nation. Corporation tax is not a large part of the UK tax system. The three big taxes are VAT, NICs and income tax. These three dwarf every other tax. Labour foolishly promised not to touch them so the only options they have are slashing spending.

I think these changes are good. Disability spending cannot be left to skyrocket. But we could do with a tax increase to one of the big 3 taxes to help out too.