To be really cross about the proposed cuts?

[Byjimminy]

And feel really effing sorry for those with genuine anxiety and depression - it is disabling!

Already seeing threads in MH with people despairing in anticipation of cuts. As if mental health services haven't already been decimated beyond recognition already. GP appointments as rare as hen's teeth, CAMHS and access to decent therapy is next to non-existent, the conservatiives slashed all the support workers and sure start centres and we've had the worst pandemic in decades (centuries?) - long covid is thing too! And now people are just self diagnosing/making up mental health issues? How the hell anyone believes anyone manages to claim PIP without a proper diagnosis is insanity itself.

I completely agree with this article: https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/wes-streeting-overdiagnosis-mental-health-adhd-b2716618.html

I know there will be umpteen threads on this already, but maybe some others like me just want to let stuff out in frustration and have a fresh place to say it. To think this is a labour government making these decisions BEFORE putting the services in place to actually help and treat people is beyond comprehension.

The sad thing is it will be the genuine cases that suffer. Those that play the system always come out on top and I say that as a fraud manager. They can afford the top solicitors and do successfully fight cases and win.

Persevere, get all the help from CAB etc that you can and see your G.P if your condition worsens, record everything and read as much as you can or get someone else to assist. I think these measures have good intentions, but I doubt they’ll work in practice.

Are you a taxpayer, OP? How do you feel about your money going towards people who have medicalised normal human emotions (sadness, anxiety etc) and are living off your hard work? People with genuine medical conditions will still get help, but there need to be some proper boundaries, fir for everyone's sake.

Excellent summary.

I think they were clear comparing anxiety and depression to bipolar disorder is outrageous and profoundly, deeply ignorant. That wasn't their point at all. You just lashed out because this is, for many, a terrifying subject. Bottom line:

1. not enough money,
2. The wealthy began leaving due to Brexit
3. After 2023, young high earners began to leave (Canada mostly go figure)
4. Massive surge in high-earner departures because of fear of labour tax.

Fundamentally, we each miss the point because we have become so scared and angry. We cannot afford a significant portion of our society opting out of 1% of people generating 30% of tax, which makes us vulnerable to them leaving.
I hope we can get lower taxes and a more intelligent benefits system that gets people into work, but work should mean helping where possible in the community, doing what you can and living with your basics covered. The rise of kids claiming will be influenced by social media, especially when the HOW TO CLAIM t9ks started. That's why the government was so precise with that data point. I think this is very well done, and that's as a full-time working disabled (pysical) Autist. I don't regard being autistic as a disability. I think other autistic people have additional processing issues. But I'd always want a welfare system wouldn't live in a country without it.

inwas talking about this with my friendship group and a couple spouted the usual nonsense about fake claimants and teen mums 🙄

people seem to forget that the majority of the benefit pot goes to pensioners

I have complex PTSD, I've had it for 40 years bit it was only diagnosed 5 years ago thanks to GPs who don't listen and quite frankly wany you out of their room in 10 minutes.
With CPTSD I get hallucinations and hear voices but I'm considered fit to work because I know they aren't real.
I've also been divorced twice and two of my children died at birth. I can't cope with the demands of a relationship
I've worked full time for 45 years in a busy NHS clinic as a medical professional.
I think my experiences make me much better at my job and it's a lifeline I need to survive mentally. I can't imagine how I'd cope without my job. It gives me something to live for.
I think more people with mental illnesses should try working.
If I'd given up and sat at home day after day I'd be dead by now.
We have a good few autistic people at work too and they manage very well with the right kind of support.

What I think a lot of people don’t realise is that depression and anxiety are medical conditions. They are only diagnosed if someone meets the diagnostic criteria.

These terms are used casually to mean being slightly down or worried (which doesn’t help) but ultimately no one is going to get PIP or support unless they are actually ill.

The real issue is that support is simply not available for those who need it to get better and return to work. I have a relative who went to a top uni and was in a high-flying career until changes at work led to a breakdown and he ended up with serious depression and anxiety (including being suicidal).

He was told there was no point even trying to get therapy or treatment on the NHS as the waiting list was so long. This was someone who’d been paying huge amounts of tax- fortunately he was able to be treated privately, but how many in his position can’t and are then left without treatment?

‘There is much support available already…’

… said nobody who’s tried to access mental health services for at least the last 20 years. Complete bullshit. MH services are beyond absolutely dire.

Ffs, even if you get through to a G.P, they’ll tell you to call the Samaritans, who don’t have enough volunteers to answer their phones…

I am a tax payer and I work full time thanks.

If a Dr is medicalising normal human emotions such as sadness and anxiety, and a benefits worker agrees, and a DWP work capability/PIP assessor presses the green button for extra of my tax money to be spent on them unnecessarily, I would be looking at how the hell diagnoses are made, and where in that process the fuck ups are. Not stigmatising and penalising everyone with a diagnosis in this way!

YANBU

I think people are missing the hypocrisy of it all.

Apparently workless disabled people are being incentivised to not find a nonexistant job; so a disability benefit that has nothing to do with work must be slashed mercilessly to force these skivers into work.

But all these workless abled people on UC are getting their sick pay and benefits increased because the extra money will incentivise these people to stay in work.

So, abled and out of work deserve more benefits, but disabled whether in or out of work do not.

Sickening.

Many have! I worked for years with severe anxiety and depression. I wasn’t prepared for the psychotic episodes that came a few years ago. Many MH issues cannot be fixed by just getting on with it.

@Byjimminy , unfortunately there are online groups dedicated to helping people game the system. They tell people what to say to those assessing them.

The mega rich are already leaving the country and how can you blame them? They already lose half of what they earn, then taxed again when they die. What’s to stay for? And the corporations will take their business to more welcoming climes too if there’s nothing in it for them here.

The issue is a lot people who claim they are too anxious/ADHD/neurodivergent/mentally ill to go to work probably have children, drive, go out with friends, go to the shops etc.

Its very much a pick and choose what parts of the label suits and what doesn’t.

If someone is claiming they have ADHD and cannot work due to impulsive behaviour/unpredictability then surely they should not be allowed to drive as this is a safety issue and if someone has ADHD severe enough to seek a diagnoses and use this to not work then they should have their license revoked on medical grounds, same for anxiety as surely being as anxious as they claim to be is actually very dangerous when in control of a vehicle.
The same way if someone is too mentally unwell to be able to work they are probably too mentally unwell to be able to have and bring up children properly, and at what point can we stop that happening (we can’t, sadly).

We need to move to the mindset of too disabled to work = too disabled to make the right conscious choices when it comes to our own & others health and safety

But that does happen. I suffer anxiety, depression, psychosis, OCD, autism. My driving license was taken away.

As someone who has suffered with both anxiety and depression I think this is a good thing. The worst thing you can do is check out from life and sit at home. Better to have a purpose and get out of the house. MH services need improving and society itself needs to change. People have become way way too insular and it is not good for any of us.

It is important to remember that the majority of people in this country benefit more than they contribute. So for the majority, it isn't their money as they are reliant on someone else's taxes.

Very much agree.

I am diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder and Severe Generalised Anxiety Disorder, I have suffered symptoms of both for 30+ years. Sometimes the symptoms are so bad I can barely function, sometimes I can get on with life relatively normally, even whilst feeling fragile.

I have never claimed sickness benefits for these conditions - because when they're having sufficient impact on my life to need to claim, I'm incapable of completing the forms to apply. I am not saying this catch-22 applies to anyone else, mind you.

The thing is, there are active steps one can take to improve, support and maintain one's mental health. There are wellness tools one can employ. It's not easy and not guaranteed to work, and there is definitely insufficient accessible help out there to learn to recognise triggers and unhelpful behaviours.

I think one of the problems is that people feel anxious and depressed and it overwhelms them, and they can't or won't do the things that might improve their situation. So they get more and more ill and feel helpless and hopeless. I know I myself have been in that position.

Pensions are not benefits. You've paid in.

Theses threads always bring out the whole rhetoric about anxiety and depression not being worthy of PIP, or people with those conditions can still work.
Some people find that working makes their depression and anxiety worse. There is no one size fits all.

just to add, my boyfriend was worried about me last night and called the crisis team. It took them hours to get back as they were very busy. Lot of people calling them after the benefit announcements.

The reason it is possible to get PIP without a diagnosis is something called the "diagnostic gap". This describes the delta between the onset of symptoms and diagnosis. For many patients in the UK, this gap is small, but for patients with a rare disease, the average gap is ~5 years. Although each individual disease is rare, it's not rare to have a rare disease. 1 in 17 people has a rare disease.

Because we don't have perfect information about what is making people ill, and it is common for diagnosis to take a long time, financial support with the costs of disability has previously looked at how your daily life is affected, functionally, not at a diagnosis.

@ParsnipPuree , why can’t some people understand this? The mega rich are highly mobile and our nation depends heavily on their taxes.

Not sure anxiety and depression are particularly rare tbh. They can certainly manifest and impact people in different ways though, and needs an individualist approach to treatment with a good understanding of the reasons for manifestation. It takes time to explore this though - regular support workers and therapists are really the only ones who have the time to build up an accurate picture. Snapshots help no-one. Bullshitters would soon be exposed.