So, who is going to employ all these disabled people the government wants to wean of welfare

[Jimisnotmyname]

Really wondering. Not saying it is necessarily a bad thing to encourage those who can work, to work but as a carer for 2 disabled family members, I am hugely struggling to find another job as nobody is willing to give me any flexibility (which I need as a carer) and there are always candidates who do not need the same accomodations I do. I would imagine that many of those currently not in work because of disability or a health condition, will often need a similar level of flexibility. I just wonder who on the the government think will offer jobs galore on these circumstances??

This is solely my opinion and more based on children born with an impairment. I don't think there is a quick fix to this but I think schools, social workers, general society need to raise their expectations of disabled people and give them better life skills.

I was born severely physically disabled. I've never walked, crawled or sat independently for more than a couple of minutes. I can get dressed, shower, use the toilet without someone else. My parents made it very clear that I would need to work very hard if I wanted to succeed in the same way as my peers. I did well during school, despite the school writing me off. I know I needed to be degree educated if I was ever to work, so that was my path. My social worker who was getting my 24/7 care package in place for uni told me when I'm done having fun at uni, give her a call and she'll get a council flat and my benefits sorted so I'd be set for life. I laughed and said I had no intention of returning to my home town and once I graduate I'm moving to London to start my career. She patted me on the head and said see you in 3 years.

I thank her now as she was my motivation to succeed. I did my undergrad, post grad and landed my first job in London before I graduated. I've been here ever since and have continued to move up the career ladder.

This is just my experience and it will not be applicable to many disabled people! But there are disabled children growing up being fed the narrative that they're unemployable and that does need to change. Technology is opening up the world for many disabled people and it's making employment possible. But everyone needs to come together and actually want disabled people to succeed. And currently I don't think that's happening.

This is a great post, and one i agree with.

Thank you. It just puts the fear into people with mental illness as it seems there's either not being believed or being sectioned. And hardly anything helpful in between.

I agree @TwoTailFly the future planning for too many young people is that they’ll transition from DLA to PIP, without decent consideration of what they will need to be employable. It does a huge disservice to young people who, with preparation and support, could work their way towards independent living.

We are going through the planning process for my DD and the starting point for the various professionals involved has been DLA to PIP with some SDS funding. I’ve had to pull them back from that point to look at her strengths and capabilities to find a more creative way forward. Yes it takes work but surely better than writing her off at 13.

Admirable. Great post. There was a good programme on Radio 4 recently interviewing Tanni Grey-Thompson who was constantly put down but she and her family refused to let her be treated particularly differently in her education etc or reduce her expectations of herself and her life. It was really interesting and inspiring.

All we need is some determination and a positive mental attitude and we'll be up that ladder carrying a hod in no time!

Do you mind me asking how you can do those things without someone else? Was it just the case of a lot of physio/building strength/practice? Please just tell me to go away if it's too personal.

I'm asking because my son is physically disabled but he wasn't born that way, it happened suddenly when he was 8. He's 9 now and had a long hospital stay so we're both still adjusting in a lot of ways. He has managed to learn how to sit up independently and crawl again, he can also bum shuffle which is how he mostly gets around at home but he can't walk or stand at all and can't transfer alone so needs plenty of assistance with toileting. He also struggles with getting dressed and washing and tires easily.

I do think that attitudes are different towards ‘invisible’ disabilities - as well evidenced by side-swipes on this very thread about ME, Fibromyalgia et al.

‘Trying too hard’ is actually a known risk factor for ME/CFS - a known sub-group of sufferers are young driven over-achievers who have pushed themselves mentally, physically and emotionally beyond the ability of their body to recover by re-making energy. Telling them to ‘overcome the barriers’ will make them worse; allowing them to control their energy expenditure to keep within their energy capacity every single day may allow a very gradual recovery. Scoffing at whether their condition exist at all, even when clinically diagnosed, is of no use at all in aiding either the pacing needed day to day, or the sufferer’s 10% (maximum) chance of recovery.

I'm still not able to do any of that independently. I have a full care package from my local authority. I have someone working with me at all times to assist with personal care, cooking/cleaning, travelling to/from work etc.

If you haven't already, it may be worth contacting your council's occupational therapy department as they will have equipment that could help your son do things more independently.

Sorry, meant to add - what people without experience of energy-limiting conditions may also not realise are what activities really use up energy.

With the recent rise in devices that start to track energy use, it’s been interesting to see that the real ‘energy consuming’ activities, though different for different sufferers, can be:

• Talking
• Concentrating
• Showering
• Making decisions, especially consequential ones
• Stress of any kind
• Adapting to changes of temperature
• Digesting a heavy meal

Compared with these, more obvious physical exertion such as walking can be insignificant in terms of energy use, despite what many people think.

I think that part of the problem is that for one reason or another we’ve stripped a lot of jobs out of society over the last few decades. Perhaps its not that people with disabilities need every type of flexibility, but that they need jobs that aren’t too physically or mentally challenging (or both) in the first place, along with support and some flexibility in doing those jobs.

I think if the government was really serious about getting people into work they would set up graded job creation schemes to have people working who are simply not working now. These would be in activities that are not happening now because for whatever reason, they’re not generally economically lucrative to run.

So this wouldn’t be ‘taking jobs away’ from anyone, but creating useful jobs for people to do, with support, that they can either stay in long term, or progress to something else.

I’m a very firm believer that work is about so much more than money… it’s about skills, self-esteem, independence, socialisation, and ultimately creating economic value.

I have no doubt whatsoever that there are plenty of people out there (whether they have disabilities or not) that are absolutely bone idle and unwilling to work… and that in fact, being in this state long/term actually de-skills people in itself.

Alongside that, I’m sure that there are plenty of people who are willing and able to work, again with disabilities or not, who just haven’t found the right work yet.

So the govt should create supported employment in lots of areas that will benefit society in terms of things that aren’t being done at the moment, for example:

Befriending and companionship, including over the telephone

Training people to be mental health support workers, including over the phone

Parks, gardens and public spaces workers (to do work in addition to what councils do)

School-area traffic and road safety wardens (for traffic management around schools)

School playtime workers

Additional cleaners for healthcare settings

Agricultural helpers

Life coaches to help others with their finances and general life administration

These would all be very useful, rewarding roles. Why can’t we create this in society?

Most of the roles you describe are indeed useful, however, they aren't profit making in general. They are already covered by charities in some cases, or volunteers. If they aren't funded by donations, then the state still has to subsidise them. The whole drive to get "everybody who can at all" working, is to improve productivity for the national economy, not provide a supportive infrastructure for those marginalised and impoverished by being unwanted by employers, no matter how they dress it up.

But a lot of these things aren’t being done at the moment?

And yes, I think people should work if they can. Whether that’s 2 hours a week wiping tables in a community centre, half a day a month visiting a lonely neighbour, or three hours a day keeping a local park looking lovely, I don’t mind. Yes it would be expensive but it gets people working… which is the whole point.

The only people who are of working age who shouldn’t be doing some kind of work are those who can independently afford it, or those who are too badly affected by their disabilities at all to do any work whatsoever. The default position should be that people work in at least some capacity. I think that there’s a lot of scope for change there.

I think tomorrow I'm going to rock up to an employer of my choice and sit in until they give me a job. I mean, it's all about persistence and "can do" attitude right? I will hide the fact that I truly feel that there is no point in living at the moment, and the only reason I haven't offed myself already is because apparently it would upset and traumatise people, and I give a shit about my cats. I will neglect to tell them about my erratic caring responsibilities for my 85 year old Dad, who has had to fight tooth and nail for sheltered accommodation for ten months after being forced from his marital home due to DV by my SM who has been badly failed by mental health services in the last year, with me as only child to pick up the pieces. I won't mention my MIL whom I inherited when DP died three years ago, end of life Alzheimers in a nursing home I can't afford to get to.

I will hide that I am "a bit sad" about losing the business I built up over 7 years to the current economic fuckery at the same time as my parents separated, and also at the same time being served a Section 21 meaning a sudden, drastic downsize, being in 10ks worth of debt as a result, and having to move out of area, effectively isolating myself.

After all, it's just life, innit. A bath, a banana, a nice walk and a bit of resilience on the tills at Tescos will do me the world of good. Sort out the CPTSD a treat.

I'm sure my age 56, and the gap on my CV will be no problem.

And I'm one of the lucky ones, I know full well.

I've weathered many storms but now every attempt to pick myself up and dust myself down comes up against another obstacle. Yes, I've asked for help. My 8 weeks of steps to well being with a helpless young trainee counsellor who basically said "gosh that's alot" every session ticked a box, after the mandatory quizzing about whether I was a threat to myself or other people. Other than that, I don't meet the criteria for any other help, nor do I feel I deserve it.

But I have new fire in my belly after reading these threads. I might even get a headline in my local rag, if I engineer a stand off. I absolutely demand my right to a job of my choosing. Hang my elderly parents, and my MIL. The economy needs me.

Blimey, I only have IBS and even then working 3 days a week is ample. I know Crohns is much more unpleasant.

Didn't have IBS in the pandemic as I was always wfh and never had to rush anywhere and miss the toilet. No employer would want a full time me as I'd be in the bathroom a lot of the time.

No one on this thread has any answers and no one knows the truth of anyone's situation so I wouldn't get upset. My own view is that being a taxpayer nailed down relentlessly by HMRC and whose husband is highly stressed working all ours to fund our lives I would prefer my taxes to go on genuine claimants if possible. There's nothing wrong with that view. No one on this thread is saying people in genuine need shouldn't be supported. I've read my Dickens and I'm glad this country does have a welfare state. But it's also being paid for by actual people, and no one has a right to have their lifestyle funded no matter what and on the basis PIP is currently awarded to "bed wetters" people with acne and people with constipation according to Alison Pearson today in the Telegraph, it needs sorting as that is really ridiculous.

That's completely bizarre and sad. But probably not the same thing as the PP who I was replying to and who sounds very positive and impressive.

@Thoughtsonstuff

PIP is currently awarded to "bed wetters" people with acne and people with constipation according to Alison Pearson today in the Telegraph, it needs sorting as that is really ridiculous.

Do you believe everything you read? I find it unbelievable that someone with capacity actually believes that PIP is awarded for acne and constipation.

But I want a job. It's the answer to everything. I am so sorry I'm taking your money, I want my own.

I don't qualify for PIP by the way, nor would I try to claim it.

Do you think my job finding strategy will work though?

@blueIKEAbag are you suggesting workfare? That was tried and it failed. If the work needs doing, it should be properly paid at at least NMW depending on what it is.

Why is someone with ME / CFS ‘bizarre and sad’ and someone with a different disability ‘positive and impressive’?

They are both long-term, chronic, disabling conditions. Someone with ME/ CFS learning to live positively, optimistically and cheerfully within their appallingly limited energy is as ‘positive and impressive’ as the previous poster learning to live positively and cheerfully and optimistically with their condition.

However, while ‘push through to the utmost’ is enabling for one, it is dangerous advice for the other, because below the tightrope of energy management lives the chasm of severe or very severe ME - bedbound, tube fed, light intolerant, brain-fogged.

Not everyone can or should ‘try harder’.

I don’t know what it’d be called. I don’t mind whether benefits are included or not. I mean people should be no worse off, and organs even a bit better off if they work.

And everyone should be paid at least NMW of course.

Longer term this could possibly work. People need to work if at all possible.

Thanks.

OT are involved. We had to move house when he was discharged from hospital because they assessed that our old place wasn't appropriate for his needs so we became a high medical needs priority for social housing and thankfully was able to get somewhere adapted for his wheelchair and a wet room much quicker than I expected.

They have also visited school twice so far and we're hoping he can eventually go back to the same mainstream school he went to before everything happened but we're waiting for his EHCP to go through. OT have recommended a 2:1 at school due to his mobility needs so we'll see if that can be possible. Fingers crossed.

Well the DWP figures are pretty shocking!

20 people on PIP due to haemaroids
21 bedwetters
22 due to food intolerance
44 cleftlip
59 constipation
307 eczema

5283 due to drinking too much
6 people due to Munchausens syndrome (ironically where you pretend you have a condition)

Are those the only conditions for each of those awards? Because bedwetting plus daytime incontinence and urgency necessitating specific equipment and adjustments, plus additional laundry, assistance in changing pads etc might indeed add additional costs for the sufferer?