Landlord won't sell. Another second home in our dying village

[AppelationStation]

DH, DS and I have rented our current home for 6 years. We moved here, back to where he grew up, and weren't in a position to buy. We've saved hard and now we are.

We love this house. It's small, and in many ways impractical, but we adore the bones of it. It's seen us through some really rough times and been our sanctuary. We've cared for it, at our own expenses, and done loads of work to make the garden something special. Our landlord has said themselves "It's much nicer now than it was when I lived here!".

We love where it is, which is quite a unique rural setting with amazing landscapes and near the sea. We've made friends in the village, my son goes to the local primary and I'm a governor thereWeHouses aren't for sale here often. We know the local walks inside out, which wild flowers grow in which hedgerows, which birds come back to nest in which trees. It just feels like our forever home. Which of course it isn't, because we rent it.

Our landlord left the house herself to marry a farmer who lives an hour away. She won't move back. Since we've lived here the law on EPC ratings has changed so she can't legally let it out again. There is a 300% council tax penalty on second homes, because they're such a problem here (massive housing crisis, no houses for young families to buy, so local schools and shops closing all over the place). We thought, for those reasons, they'd be interested in selling to a sitting tenant.

We asked them recently. They came round this weekend, in person, to tell us No. They won't sell it. They know they can't rent it, and that they'll have to pay the second home tax. They're not sure what they want to do with it, but they don't want to sell and that's that.

I know, of course, that they're under no obligation to sell their house. They don't owe us anything. But I'm finding it really hard to accept that we have to leave, or face paying rent for the rest of our lives and have nothing to show for it. And I'm finding it doubly galling that, having paid them over 50k in rent and added value to their house by taking such good care of it (more fool us), they're going to leave it empty, let the garden go to ruin, just to keep it as an asset on their balance sheet.

I genuinely think I'd feel better if I knew another family or person was going to live here and love it. Instead the village will have another empty / second home. I can't imaging ever finding somewhere like it (it's very secluded, stone built, old, and just feels "right"), which means anything we do buy is going to be a reluctant compromise.

I know I probably sound a bit wet and daft. I can't make them sell. It's made me feel surprisingly, profoundly sad, and I just don't know how to move past that feeling.

But I'm finding it really hard to accept that we have to leave, or face paying rent for the rest of our lives and have nothing to show for it. And I'm finding it doubly galling that, having paid them over 50k in rent and added value to their house by taking such good care of it (more fool us), they're going to leave it empty, let the garden go to ruin, just to keep it as an asset on their balance sheet.

Anyone who rents has 'nothing to show for it' so you knew that all along. At least you've not been told to leave, so leaving is your own choice.

You've done well to save, so your energy should be looking forwards, not backwards.

You need to stop feeling bitter about something that has been caused by your own emotions and your financial circumstances (both of which are down to you.)

You've fallen in love with the house and invested too much into it.

I can see an analogy with a 'friends with benefits' relationship, where one person is emotionally invested and gets upset when the other person steps back - and they realise it wasn't going to last. In your head this was your dream house but it was an illusion- you could have been evicted at any time, but actually it's your choice to go. You can't control other people or blame them for your own choices.

The OP has chosen to buy- she's not being evicted. She's upset because she'd hoped to buy this house which is not actually for sale.

I've briefly thought of a buy to let, but that doesn't solve the problem.

I don’t understand why it doesn’t. You continue to live in a house you love while paying off a mortgage. It’s not as if your landlord’s kicking you out.

I think the majority of posters are sympathetic to the OP’s feelings of disappointment. I am - and I think it absolutely made sense for her to propose buying the house.

However, where she is being unreasonable is in complaining about all the money she’s spent on rent and improving the garden only to get nothing from it. Well I’m afraid that’s simply how renting works. Rent doesn’t suddenly become a down payment towards buying after you’ve reached a certain level. It was OP’s choice to do more than the minimum maintenance to the garden her contract will have required. She knew all of this, but now she can’t buy the house, suddenly she thinks the landlord has taken her for a ride.

The house isn't for sale.

How can she buy a house not on the market ?

I don't know what you mean.

I agree with this poster. Mumsnet posters tell people on here to protect themselves all the time, if they move in with someone and don't have an interest in the home they move into. She has married a farmer and the farm is probably not in her name at all. Inheritance around farms is often not straightforward.

I'm sorry she won't sell it to you, but can understand entirely why she may want to keep it.

Based on the very little you say about the owner's situation, I think YABU. The owner has married a man who may or may not own his farm (he could be under a long farming tenancy) and presumably she has no rights either way in his property. Too right she shouldn't sell up her own property in the circumstances. It does not sound as if this is her "second" home but her only owned home, and a place that she can retreat back to if things go tits up in her marriage or with the farming business (farming is notoriously precarious these days). Otherwise, it's her investment property that she can invest more into further down the line for her own financial security and independence.

Yes, but you incurring these costs is not landlord's problem.

It's a shame they won't sell to you but it is just hard luck. I wouldn't say the time and love you have put into it is wasted as you have enjoyed the home as a result . I would think about what is a moveable though - such as the garden and what could be put into pots to be moved and return it to its previous state.

YANBU to feel disappointed, but YABU to have spent your own money on a property that you will never own. You have invested too much energy and emotion into it, and money. Stop spending on maintenance and ask the Landlord every single time that something needs doing.

The amount that you have paid in rent is irrelevant, you always knew you were renting it and would have to pay rent wherever you live if you can't afford to buy.

At the end of the day, it is her house and as PP have pointed out, there are various reasons why she might not want to sell it.

They could rent it out again if they invested a bit in the energy use of the house and got the EPC up.

These rules apply to existing tenancies not just new ones, so surely they are not legally renting it to you?

Unless they have an exemption?

I mean she could buy another house and let it, thus getting on the property ladder and continue to live in her current rental. It’s not difficult to understand.

The rule changes are the problem. Older houses find it difficult to have low EPC ratings and whoever wrote the rules assumed that most houses are newish. I sometimes suspect that the green agenda will never be happy till all our uplands are covered in windmills and our fields in solar panels, whilst anything built before 1990 is demolished and replaced by an eco-friendly whatever.
Sorry your landlords won't sell, but it's not them are the problem, it's the stupid laws re energy.

It was hard to know what you meant, because you didn't explain it fully, hence asking

Given the OP is on a very tight budget, she might not be able to afford a Buy to Let mortgage, nor may she want the hassle of being a landlord because her ability to pay the rent AND a mortgage would rely on always having a tenant.

And it also means she would always be at the mercy of being told to leave the rental house.

she would always be at the mercy of being told to leave the rental house

And that’s why OP should check out her rights with shelter as needed so as to be sure of her contract in case she does receive this news, since she lives in an area with low availability of rentals.

The landlady will be keen to have such a good tenant improving her rental house for her at no cost… up until the landlady isn’t because she wants to sell it on or live in it herself. So OP needs to know what timescales and rights she has.

Sorry your landlords won't sell, but it's not them are the problem, it's the stupid laws re energy.

But the rule changes aren’t a factor in the landlord’s decision not to sell. OP thinks that’s why they should sell. As far as I can see, the landlord is quite happy to keep renting to the OP. OP just suggested the option of selling because, if she were to move out, the landlord might have issues letting the property again in the future.

Try reading the thread.

The OP is about to buy a house.

You don't appear to know what these rules are.

The current EPC rule for rented property is E, incredibly easy to achieve and a rating that any decent LL should have.

The new rule, not due in until 2030, so AFTER the next GE, is an EPC of C - that will be a problem for many BUT Miliband is saying grants will be available for LLs with 1 or 2 properties, assuming Labour even get in again, unlikely atm.

Yeh that’s what I read it as @StellaAndCrow

Shelter isn’t really relevant for a renter who can stay but just wants to buy instead.

op I see you’re invested emotionally in the house but best to look elsewhere if you want to buy.

You could always call their bluff & move out - worst case you find another home you can build a life or they'll realise it's more hassle then it's worth & put it up

I can see it from both sides, you obviously love the house. I do have a house that I rent out and the tenants also love it and would like to buy it. But I really don't want to sell, partly because I do really like the house, it's also a nest egg for my children, and partly because my Dad spent his last few years there and I love the memories of going to see him there.

You have no idea why your landlord is keeping the property. She may love it just as much as you do. She may wish to keep it as a retreat for herself. She may want it for old age (not sure if it's easier than a farm to reside in) or she may wish to keep it for her children.

I can feel your immense disappointment and I'm sorry that you feel that you have to move. However, your landlord may have loads of reasons to say no. It's not always about immediate financial gain and she is under no obligation to share her long term plans with you.

You could continue to stay, keep saving and ask again in a few years or start looking for your dream home which will be a lovely blank canvas.

I am sure you'll make any house into a beautiful home x

I understand them, I do worry that grants to make homes (rented or bought) more energy efficient will wreck many older houses and cause problems with damp etc.
I am generally not in favour of energy efficient measures that spoil landscapes or spoil houses. Solar panels covering arable land are an abomination as are wind turbines on bleak uplands (not to mention danger to bird life). And I think the pollution we produce is more important than chasing CO2 targets.

A rating of E is the minimum and it’s still incredibly low. What energy efficiency strategies to get houses to a very low efficiency rating do you think spoil older houses?

The last few Victorian homes I’ve sold were a C rating and it’s very, very easy to achieve.

Solar panels farms and wind turbines have nothing to do with domestic EPC ratings.

No, I know. But they are part of the same 'save the world' scenario that actually wrecks the place.
My Victorian house is double glazed and isulated, with solar panels. Stays warm in winter and cool in summer - except the sitting room which faces south-east and therefore overheats on warm afternoons.