Landlord won't sell. Another second home in our dying village

[AppelationStation]

DH, DS and I have rented our current home for 6 years. We moved here, back to where he grew up, and weren't in a position to buy. We've saved hard and now we are.

We love this house. It's small, and in many ways impractical, but we adore the bones of it. It's seen us through some really rough times and been our sanctuary. We've cared for it, at our own expenses, and done loads of work to make the garden something special. Our landlord has said themselves "It's much nicer now than it was when I lived here!".

We love where it is, which is quite a unique rural setting with amazing landscapes and near the sea. We've made friends in the village, my son goes to the local primary and I'm a governor thereWeHouses aren't for sale here often. We know the local walks inside out, which wild flowers grow in which hedgerows, which birds come back to nest in which trees. It just feels like our forever home. Which of course it isn't, because we rent it.

Our landlord left the house herself to marry a farmer who lives an hour away. She won't move back. Since we've lived here the law on EPC ratings has changed so she can't legally let it out again. There is a 300% council tax penalty on second homes, because they're such a problem here (massive housing crisis, no houses for young families to buy, so local schools and shops closing all over the place). We thought, for those reasons, they'd be interested in selling to a sitting tenant.

We asked them recently. They came round this weekend, in person, to tell us No. They won't sell it. They know they can't rent it, and that they'll have to pay the second home tax. They're not sure what they want to do with it, but they don't want to sell and that's that.

I know, of course, that they're under no obligation to sell their house. They don't owe us anything. But I'm finding it really hard to accept that we have to leave, or face paying rent for the rest of our lives and have nothing to show for it. And I'm finding it doubly galling that, having paid them over 50k in rent and added value to their house by taking such good care of it (more fool us), they're going to leave it empty, let the garden go to ruin, just to keep it as an asset on their balance sheet.

I genuinely think I'd feel better if I knew another family or person was going to live here and love it. Instead the village will have another empty / second home. I can't imaging ever finding somewhere like it (it's very secluded, stone built, old, and just feels "right"), which means anything we do buy is going to be a reluctant compromise.

I know I probably sound a bit wet and daft. I can't make them sell. It's made me feel surprisingly, profoundly sad, and I just don't know how to move past that feeling.

Of course you are entitled to feel that way op as the situation is a very sad one for rural communities. Unfortunately, there are plenty of landlords coming along to say how great the situation is purely because they don’t want to lose out themselves on their extra assets if the system was improved in favour or the many.

They could be Tenant farmers and want something to retire to

The landlord didn’t promise to sell. They said they would consider selling at some point down the line , not the same thing, not even close.

No landlord is going to let a house sit empty! Surely they'll just switch to Airbnb which I guess is not bothered about EPC ratings.

Yes I agree with you, I couldn’t afford any of the houses we bought and did up at today’s prices and the cost of materials is sky high compared to what they were. But it’s not impossible to find houses that need work and improve them as long as you do the work yourself and are flexible about where you’re prepared to live.

The issue is not second home owners, whose houses are cared for and used, but absentee owners who let empty properties fall into disrepair.

Edited to clarify owners not landlords

This is a weird thread and a misleading title. It isn't a second home. It's a rental property which enables renters to live in the area. It's not like it sits there empty apart from three weeks in August.

OP if your landlady had never rented out the property then you would never have had the pleasure of living there.

I don’t think it’s entitled to think that houses should be lived in. It could be the landlord living there, or new tenants if the house was brought up to standard or sold on to someone like the op. I do think it is very entitled and wasteful to keep it empty and let it go to rack and ruin. Without someone using it regularly it will start to slowly deteriorate. (Took about 6 months for our house sale to go through and it only took that long for things like damp to get considerably worse from the point where we viewed and did surveys due to no one living there)

It’s not much of an asset if it is allowed to depreciate in value. The owners are entitled to do that but entitled being the word.

The most likely scenario is they will think things over during the next year and come to the conclusion that they need to upgrade and rent or sell. If they sell they may well ask op who will probably have moved on in a different direction.

YANBU to be upset. But there could be 1000s of reasons, happy or sad, why she doesn’t want to sell. Happy- maybe kids are moving home, maybe the farm is going to the next generation etc. Sad, maybe she’s thinking this is her only security if she leaves the farmer, maybe she needs the income and realises that if she sells she’ll be pressured into ploughing it into the farm. Maybe she has a real sentimental attachment to the house too. You can never see through someone else’s eyes or into their marriage.

My advice is don’t take it personally. Look at your finances and save like you’ve never saved before. Don’t spend another penny on the house that’s not essential and really start looking for other places in earnest. Good advice given by other OPs, think about secondary school and your DC becoming independent. Look at slightly run down properties with better transport links and potential (towns/ larger villages). Consider shared ownership. You don’t have to live there forever. Chances are in 2 years you’ll be in a lovely place of your own and be downright grateful that you didn’t buy your current house.

Regarding the EPC rules changing, I thought it would be subject to a maximum spend, not an absolute. So they will have to spend eg 10k on upgrades but if it is still not an EPC C they can then still rent it out.
It is their house, they also have emotional attachments to it.
If you have saved money, buy another house.

Years ago we sold an inherited thatched terraced cottage in rural Devon. It was a lovely cottage with oodles of character but had no parking and no proper garden. We had no interest at all from locals, despite being priced by a local estate agent to sell. We weren’t greedy, we would have taken an offer but none came. It went to a outsider as a holiday home.

As someone else said the EPC rules haven't changed yet. It just needs to be rated as an E. It coukd be that she has misunderstood. The rules are on gov.uk.

Agreed. A buy to let mortgage is at a higher rate than a domestic one, agents costs will be approx 11% of the rent, and they will take the full whack up front (so 11% of the total annual rent if it is a 1 year contract), you will have set up costs for contracts, inventory, electricity certification, gas safety check, EPC rating, insurance etc. You'll need a maintenance fund, as unlike with your own property where you can leave things until you have saved up you will have to carry out repairs instantly for a tenant. That may mean an out of hours call out fee. Then there is the tax, which once you are on self assessment HMRC will require you to pay 6 months in advance. It's not a simple as use the rent to pay your rent, as you'll be using a big chunk (perhaps all) of the rent to pay these costs.

Crikey, you have time on your hands. The tone of many many many LLs is that they are doing a favour (eg oh I fixed that boiler within a week when I'm sure their own is done within 24 hours) / There are several LLs on this thread who are reacting with tones of outrage that the OP has had the audacity to develop home-like feelings towards her home. How very dare she be so entitled?? / Actually lots of people in eg my village don't lift a finger to help the community and I absolutely think it would help if the people who do have access to - oh what is that thing that helps in day to day life? Oh yes, a home / Yeah, it's not a reach at all from the tone of this thread (I suspect you're not a school governor!) / Read what I actually said? I'd 100% rather be friends with someone who helps out in the community than eg LLs on this thread / a sense of entitlement for wanting to buy a house that she has been told she would be able to buy, has made improvements on, and will now sit empty and deteriorating? What a monster.

Read what I said? I'm saying I'd rather be friends with the OP than some twerp who doesn't lift a finger to help anyone ever.

I am in two minds about cutting holiday lets in the country. Surely it helps the economy if people holiday in their own country rather than spending money overseas and for many people, hotels are both unaffordable and not ideal with young kids or pets. What holiday lets require is a permission system by the Council so they do not surpass a certain percentage. It needs to be worked out carefully via permissions, a bit like hotels, restaurants etc too.

I really feel for you. That sucks (esp that they dangled the carrot in front of you and said they might sell) but don’t rush off to buy something. When in doubt do nought. Wait and see what happens, you’re in a good position and something lovely might come up.

There are countries that have a system which gives longstanding tenants a right of first refusal when a landlord sells. But I do not think anyone can force a landlord to sell. They may also have emotional attachments to a property and they do own it.

I've not read the full thread (so shoot me) but the thing about renting anything is you don't own it. House, car, clothes, whatever. You can want to own it but to do so you have to buy it. If this LL doesn't want to sell then they don't have to even if the tenant wants them to.

My guess is it is the CGT. If the property is mortgaged and has been let out for quite a long time the sale proceeds less agents fees probably won't cover the mortgage repayment and the CGT bill. That leaves the LL in a rather bizarre position of not being able to afford to sell because they can't fund the CGT. It's a difficult catch 22 position. That and the excessively high stamp duty rates are stalling the housing market. Elderly people sit in big 4 or 5 bed houses because the stamp duty cost of downsizing is unaffordable. I have no answers but I am have sympathy for both sides.

Why should she be penalised more? The house is her financial security.

Landlord won't sell. Another second home in our dying village

Disingenuous title @AppelationStation

You're suggesting the owner of the house is a '2nd home owner' who lives hundreds of miles away, taking away a house from locals who might want to buy it

This landlord isn't in that category. They owned the house before you rented it as their main home then moved elsewhere when they married.

They want to hold onto it when you move out, for reasons unknown to you and that's their choice.

I don't know what you hope to gain other than some sympathy. Yes, you hoped to buy it one day but that was never a given.

But you can't blame the owner because looking at it another way, you've had 6 years of living there whereas you could have had 6 years in a high rise flat with no garden. So you've benefited from them.

I'd reconsider living in a 'dying village' as you've got children and widen your horizons- literally and metaphorically - about where you live next.

One day this will all be behind you and you'll have found your own dream home.

OP very seriously. Call the housing charity shelter, explain the situation just as you have here and get advice on the exact type of tenancy you have and what your rights are. They will advise you.

Why? At no point has OP said she’s at risk of losing her home. All that’s happening is she’s asked to buy it and been told it’s not for sale. That has nothing to do with her tenancy agreement. As far as I can tell, the owner is perfectly happy to continue renting to the OP - more than happy in fact, as OP’s existing tenancy agreement won’t be affected by EPC changes.

I did read what you said and it was both banal and irrelevant.

Your post is naturally focusing on you. They sound decent in that they have come round to say no. You don’t know why they won’t sell.
They may only rent at the farm, they may be on verge of splitting, may wish to live there when retire, have a relative who will live there etc. It’s her house and her decision.
Have you tried asking on facebook and mentioning to all friends and acquaintances you are looking to buy in village. You never know who may be looking to sell.

OP hasn’t said the landlord is kicking her out because of the rule change. OP just made a proposal to buy the house because she thought it might be attractive to the landlord in light of the pending change. In any case, it doesn’t affect existing tenants, so it will make no odds to the OP’s situation as a tenant.

Maybe I've read the OP wrong, but I don't think the landlord is asking OP to leave? It sounded like the landlord is happy to continue renting to them, but not willing to sell to them.

Have I got that wrong?

What would Shelter be able to help with in these circumstances?