Landlord won't sell. Another second home in our dying village

[AppelationStation]

DH, DS and I have rented our current home for 6 years. We moved here, back to where he grew up, and weren't in a position to buy. We've saved hard and now we are.

We love this house. It's small, and in many ways impractical, but we adore the bones of it. It's seen us through some really rough times and been our sanctuary. We've cared for it, at our own expenses, and done loads of work to make the garden something special. Our landlord has said themselves "It's much nicer now than it was when I lived here!".

We love where it is, which is quite a unique rural setting with amazing landscapes and near the sea. We've made friends in the village, my son goes to the local primary and I'm a governor thereWeHouses aren't for sale here often. We know the local walks inside out, which wild flowers grow in which hedgerows, which birds come back to nest in which trees. It just feels like our forever home. Which of course it isn't, because we rent it.

Our landlord left the house herself to marry a farmer who lives an hour away. She won't move back. Since we've lived here the law on EPC ratings has changed so she can't legally let it out again. There is a 300% council tax penalty on second homes, because they're such a problem here (massive housing crisis, no houses for young families to buy, so local schools and shops closing all over the place). We thought, for those reasons, they'd be interested in selling to a sitting tenant.

We asked them recently. They came round this weekend, in person, to tell us No. They won't sell it. They know they can't rent it, and that they'll have to pay the second home tax. They're not sure what they want to do with it, but they don't want to sell and that's that.

I know, of course, that they're under no obligation to sell their house. They don't owe us anything. But I'm finding it really hard to accept that we have to leave, or face paying rent for the rest of our lives and have nothing to show for it. And I'm finding it doubly galling that, having paid them over 50k in rent and added value to their house by taking such good care of it (more fool us), they're going to leave it empty, let the garden go to ruin, just to keep it as an asset on their balance sheet.

I genuinely think I'd feel better if I knew another family or person was going to live here and love it. Instead the village will have another empty / second home. I can't imaging ever finding somewhere like it (it's very secluded, stone built, old, and just feels "right"), which means anything we do buy is going to be a reluctant compromise.

I know I probably sound a bit wet and daft. I can't make them sell. It's made me feel surprisingly, profoundly sad, and I just don't know how to move past that feeling.

The landlord may very well want to move back to the house when she and her husband retire. I appreciate how much you l’ve enjoyed living in the house and how much you’d love to stay in it but it’s her house and she doesn’t have to sell it to you or anyone.

All the ifs and buts about how much it’s going to cost the landlord for the house to either be upgraded or sit empty is for the landlord to shoulder.

It’s time to stay househunting… I hope you find something better and take all your lovely garden plants with you!

I think your entire mentality is so entitled OP. Her reasons have nothing to do with you, if she wants it sitting then that’s her reason. So what if you made upgrades, your son goes to the local school and on and on, really what does it have to do with her. You owe her rent, she gives you a place to stay and that’s the arrangement. The fact that you find it galling tells me how entitled you are.

I agree to an extent, but having had to have work done in my house recently I was shocked by how expensive it is now. I think the massive increases in the cost of materials etc. is changing the maths on such decisions now.

Sorry that sounds entitled. No one is obliged to sell their home to you. Maybe she wants to keep it for sentimental reasons and for her it’s worth the extra council tax and costs. Maybe she naively underestimates the costs of keeping a second property empty.

this can’t be THE ONLY house that you can afford?

OP very seriously. Call the housing charity shelter, explain the situation just as you have here and get advice on the exact type of tenancy you have and what your rights are. They will advise you.

The fact is if your landlord sold with you as a sitting tenant you would reduce the value but if they sell as soon as you’ve gone with the house and garden all spruced up, they would gain extra value from your care of the place. So be wary of any fast unlawful eviction.

And I agree about posting a flyer through every door in the village asking if they want to sell. A private sale would be cheaper for all parties with no estate agent involved.
The good news is whatever happens you now have the money for buying and gaining security outside of this private rental, but I do understand your emotional attachment and moral position on this specific home.

Being in the building trade myself, I'm sure if the landlord needed a satisfactory EPC certificate for the house to re-let they could get one - the whole EPC system and its inspectors is, to say the least, somewhat inconsistent and there are certainly those who keep the customer (ie lettings agents) satisfied.

Getting, entirely legitimate, certification on building where it should never be given is shockingly easy alas.

This kind of heartless response is the reason everybody dislikes landlords. It’s absolutely OP’s concern - it’s her home!

One odd aspect of this is the desire to leave it empty though. As I understand it empty homes normally attract the same council tax premium as second homes. So if OP is in a 300% premium area the owners might be faced with paying £6-8000 a year to leave it empty, on top of maintainance, insurance etc. Do they realise this? If so, is it worth gently pointing it out? They might change their minds once they realise.

This is really offensive. I had a home before having children. Then my husband turned into an abusive arsehole and I ended up renting again.

Her comments on the law changing around the EPC do not make sense. Currently, it's a minimum of E rating which she must have to be legally letting it to you (that was introduced in 2018 for new tenancies and 2020 for existing tenancies).

It's not expected to rise to a C until 2030 for existing tenants and 2028 for new tenants.

So if you leave this year, she most definitely will be able to rent it out again.

People don't dislike landlords though. Only when they can't get just what they want.

This isn't about he role as a landlord.
This is about an owner not wanting to sell.

That's her choice.

There could be zillions of reasons- maybe even keeping it as a home for an elderly parent, or her children when they are older, or whatever.

It's none of a tenant's business.

All this throwing toys out of the pram because someone can't get what they want....

The problem with second homes laying empty and holiday lets where local people can't afford to get on the property ladder anymore mostly started with local people selling their properties to outsiders in the first place rather than other locals because they could get more money from outsiders. Now villagers complain that locals can't afford a local property because other locals sold them all to outsiders who were willing to pay more money.

Yanbu, but isn’t nobody policing this EPC rule, so they could let it out?

See my comment above. It doesn't require policing, the rules still allow the LL to rent her property out assuming it's above an E.

Buy another house, rent it out. Use the rent to pay your rent. Plus, negotiate a lower rent on your home, given that it's no longer officially rentable.

Really? So you think locals had 2 or 3 properties and sold to speculators etc?

Of perhaps they moved away, retired/downsized or haven forbid died and their children who live miles away, sold on the open market?

You can have financial independence and protection without contributing to the housing crisis.

And you can even have more financial independence and protection by renting out a lovely property you own in a desirable area with your pick of tenants desperate to move in.

This normally doesn’t work for tax reasons. You’ll get taxed 20% or potentially 40% on the income and have lettings agent costs. Plus if you have a decent sized mortgage the after-costs cash flow is often zero these days.

True, but even if it was an issue now, the system of building inspections is very flexible.

I was on a massive new build secondary school project over the summer, and it was discovered the flat roofing contractor had not used the required thickness of insulation - I stood up there as site agent, shooting the breeze on the issue with the LABC inspector, who after pacing around and humming and ah'ing decided as the roof was structurally sound and waterproof and insulated, we'll let it go - roof certified - no illegality, no back handers, these matters just come down to the professional opinion of one person, another inspector could have viewed the situation differently.

So even when things change, if you had a property inspected by 3 EPC inspectors, expect 3 different outcomes.

This happened to friend of mine. They lived in rented place 8 years. Wanted to buy. Landlord refused. They bought another house, moved out , landlord put up for sale almost immediately

the reason she felt this happened was that they knew too much about the house, what it needed in terms of work, the draw backs. They’d have offered a realistic price, given things like estate agent not being needed.

it was sold way above its true value, friend thinks that the issue they knew about were covered up to get that price.

I'm sorry you are in this position but I'm afraid I think YABU.

It is disappointing, but they are under no obligation to sell you the house. However, I would be kind to yourself; don't think of the amount of money and time you spent on the rental as 'lost', think of it as an investment in making a happy home for your family.

On a more practical point - how much did you offer? Did you get an honest valuation of the house, or ask the owners how much they wanted for it?

There is a very big difference between you saying that you would buy it from them for £400K and they think that they can sell it further down the line for £600K. Maybe they were actually trying to be tactful?

Who knows? But if you want the house more than they want to sell it, they are certainly not going to part with it for less than a very healthy market price.

The rental market is currently huge. Thanks to the selling off of many private rental properties. It'll work out. It's a compromise. It all depends how desperate they are to stay in the current house.

Nobody knows why they want to keep it. Holiday home, home for their kids, alternative home if they split, sentimental reasons.

There is no reason why it will "fall into ruin" if they decide not to let it out. Maybe they will do something radical like employ a gardener or someone to look after it.

At the end of the day it is their house and they can do what they want with it. Best to find another one to buy.

My granny sold off a chunk of her garden many years before I was born and a house was build on the sold land. It was never lived in. Nice bungalow. Vacant for over 40 years. Madness.

They may reconsider, when they’ve done the number crunching. My landlady Initially said no because of the mortgage. But didn’t want to rent again and knew I was looking elsewhere. So offered it to me.

Doer uppers aren't often much cheaper though.

We bought a doer upper nearly 20 years ago and it was significantly cheaper than similar but modernised houses and weve just done it gradually 1 room at a time , extended, new roof etc....but it's taken 10+ years. (DH does a lot of DIY including plumbing himself)
Now houses that need doing are barely any cheaper....and materials etc are more expensive than eg 10 years ago