To not want to be DP’s tenant?

[barhumbug]

DP and I have been together almost 4yrs. I moved in with him as he owns his own home and at the time we met I was in shared accommodation so it made a lot more sense. He has always wanted me to feel like it’s ‘my’ home rather than me living in his house but I can’t help but still feeling like I am. He’s never made me feel that way but it’s always in the back of my mind that I am and I hoped that one day this would change.

Since I moved in he has refused to allow me to contribute a penny to anything related to the house. I give a contribution to bills but that’s it. Mortgage, white goods that need replacing etc have all been paid by him 100%. I have offered to contribute to white goods but he has refused. I understand completely his reluctance to allow me to contribute to the mortgage as he doesn’t want me having any kind of claim to any part of his house if we were to split. Fair enough, I absolutely understand, he worked really hard to buy his home and I wouldn’t want to take away any part of that.

Due to an inheritance he has now paid off the mortgage in full so is mortgage free. Fantastic! He is now thinking about potentially upgrading to a bigger property with parking as we live in a very desirable area and parking is a nightmare. Plus maybe having an extra bedroom for guests to visit etc.

However, property is expensive here and the size/type he is looking at would be right at the top of his budget, meaning his living costs would increase a lot with a new mortgage. Basically, he could just about afford it on his own but it would be a stretch. His plan, as it currently stands is for me to pay ‘rent’ as a contribution to housing costs but I wouldn’t be on the mortgage or have a claim to any part of the house so he would keep everything in the event of a split.

Due to a combination of unfortunate circumstances when I met DP I was in the process of digging myself out of debt and had no savings. Since then I’m very proud of myself in that I’ve managed to completely clear my debts, rebuild my credit rating to excellent and have a few grand in savings. As such I have very little chance of getting a property on my own but we could easily afford a decent place together with our joint earnings.

Aibu in thinking I’m not ok with this? It doesn’t make sense (to me) for him to stretch himself super thin just to be able to keep 100% of the risk and responsibility of a new house while I pay him ‘rent’ and effectively build nothing for myself? I will obviously continue to save as much as I can anyway but I still would have no chance of buying my own place if we split in the future. He doesn’t have any immediate plans to buy, he’s thinking ahead for 5yrs time to enable him to
build a bigger deposit for a new place. He could change his mind in that time as by then we would have been together almost 9yrs but I’m not
sure I want take that risk. I see us very much as being in a long term, potentially life long partnership and I really want us to have something that is ‘ours’ and currently there is nothing. All our finances are separate, we won’t be getting married as he is staunchly against it. I’ve come to terms with that and I’m ok with it as I understand his reasoning but for some reason this feels like a hill I’m willing to die on. I’m sure he does love me and very much also sees us as a life long partnership but I know he also got badly burned by a previous long term partner and narrowly avoided losing his home when they split so I’m sure that’s a big factor here.

I just really don’t want to be his ‘tenant’. I want to be an equal partner and if this goes ahead I will still feel like I’m ’living in his house’ no matter how much he wants me to see it as ‘ours’. I can’t quite explain but it feels like the power dynamic would be totally off. I’m not even sure how the logistics would work, would I have a tenancy agreement etc?

I’m not sure if I’m making a bigger deal of it than it is? Tbh I’m only in the position I’m in now because of his encouragement and support and this feels a bit like I’m throwing my toys out the pram if I don’t get my way. I don’t know if it’s worth throwing away what is, in every other sense a fantastic relationship.

*We don’t have kids and will be staying child free so no need to worry about any of that!

this is an orange flag.

because now your trying to find a financially equitable solution he's being wishy washy.
do not become your partners lodger. either you stay put or buy something together as TIC.

This is completely fair.

I have been on the other side of this and what you are suggesting which is that you can “buy in” to the new home is completely fair.

If you sit him down and explain this and he cannot see what he is suggesting is disproportionately negative punitive to you… as it blocks you from achieving any financial security whilst he doubles down on his financial security… then honestly I would exit the relationship because he is just a landlord you shag, not a life partner.

There is no way this level of self interest is not going to be confined to one area.
god forbid you get sick, or a parent die and you need emotional support.…

this wishy washy maybe is not the right response. He needs to say yes or no.
if he won’t clearly agree to buy together start planning to get out of the relationship and let him buy his dream house and get a lodger.

I am in the same boat as you on this one, OP.

First of all, do not buy a BTL. You have already outlined above why this is not a good option for you. As a property owner who now lets that property, I can confirm that if everything goes perfectly, sometimes it is fine. However, tenants can be late on rent, boilers need replacing, wear and tear necessitate repairs, and in the UK you also have to remortgage every 2-5 years with all the associated fees and potential impact of interest rises.

On the committment point, can you seek out counselling? Or the advice of a trusted friend? Many on here recommend The Freedom Programme from Women's Aid after abusive relationships.

I say this because you say he is lovely but your bar is quite low, and you have had a really rough time so "ok" might seem "really good" to you. I don't mean for that to sound patronising. Also, because men who do not want to commit will not commit and you cannot waste your life waiting for him to decide what you will do.

I was 30+ and my ex was 40+ with one DC, and I asked him quite early on what I could expect with regard to living together, finding a new place together, buying together or starting a family together. I wasn't expecting concrete answers, but wanted to open a discussion about what I could/could not expect in the relationship. He hummed and hawed and said "not now, but not never". He would not be pushed and no amount of talking negotiating, cajoling, crying or shouting could actually make him commit to anything. After months of non-response to any of these questions, I just bought my own place, a decision he "felt left out of". We split over 3 years ago, and he still cannot say what he'd actually like to do in life.

This is not a direct comparison, but set yourself a deadline. You've made the suggestion, given him the information about Tenants In Common and ringfencing your respective contributions, say to him "I'd like to revisit this in 3/6/12 months".

Educate yourself in that time, see a mortgage lender, read up on different ownership models, keep an eye on what you can afford alone/as a couple. If in 3/6/12 months he's not looked into it and is not prepared to give you answer, you know that he is not committed to you.

I’d rather know now if he has no intention of building that future with me so I’m not wasting my time

But you do know that he has no intention of building a future with you. He’s telling you that. He is refusing any form of commitment and isn’t concerned about you or your future.

I think you need to stop making excuses for him. Your ex was a cocklodging twat and because this one is a different kind of twat, you’re clinging to the idea that everything is fine and this relationship is good. But it’s not really, it’s just a different type of bad than you’re used to.

As you said, don’t waste your time. There are men that would be delighted to marry you and buy a house together, that wouldn’t shy from commitment. That’s what you want so you should go find one of them instead of settling for the scraps this guy is offering.

But op us using him to pay off her debt and save money?

I feel for you, because you’re right, there isn’t really any more tangible way to show commitment to a long term future together in your circumstances other than buying a house together, children or marriage, which you explain are all off the table.

I wouldn’t want to be there to facilitate this dream of a larger house without any security for myself. I’d definitely be planning for a future that didn’t involve him as clearly that’s what he is doing. It doesn’t mean you have to split up right now, but I’d be prioritising saving money and financial freedom rather than getting further enmeshed into his life’s plan of which you are mere scenery.

I think that is a reasonable, actually honourable choice if they are not married. If she wants a more committed relationship, perhaps she should discuss marriage.

Keep saving as best you can so if this upsize happens in 5 years if he won't get a joint mortgage/tenants in common then you are in a position to get your own place.

Eg would it be cheaper to move to a slightly cheaper area and be a lodger? You must be paying a good chunk of his council tax/bills etc, would lodging elsewhere be cheaper and give you more spare cash to invest, save or plough into your pension?

@Winter2020 I do not want children and neither does he. We are both in our 40’s now so small chance of changing our minds 😂

@barhumbug haven't read it all got the point he wants you to pay rent.
First house totally understandable the dynamic as it was .
New house no way .
He isn’t stretching himself for you both he is doing it as he knows he can get your rent to pay the difference in the bigger mortgage .
He knows exactly what he is doing and this is not a partnership he is out for himself .
This is not the man for you . .

If this was as serious relationship he would be saying ok let’s buy a home together now .
He could still keep the old house safe .
Honestly he is showing you exactly what he thinks and is sorting himself out you are not his life long partner in his eyes .

He can't afford the new house unless he charges you rent.

By the sounds of it you can't afford to buy on your own so need to go in with him to get a foot on the housing ladder.

As others have pointed out you could buy as tennnants in common where your respective shares are protected. You both get the new house and you get a foot up onto the housing ladder. If you split you'd both share in any equity that's been made.

He doesn't want that as he wants to keep all of the equity for himself and you are effectively homeless.

Personally I wouldn't be happy with that as it just feels wrong. Although there are arguments to say that you'll need to pay rent wherever you live it feels like a huge imbalance of power in your 'committed relationship' to be paying him rent.

I would be upfront and say that you won't be paying rent and you're happy to purchase as tenants in common. If he doesn't like that idea and still wants to buy the new house then he'll need to work out how to fund it and you'll need to find some alternative accomodation.

Actually quite a sad situation for you op.

Unfortunately your DP doesn't see you as a financially stable partner so he is protecting himself. I can understand that. If you buy together you'll have a joint mortgage which you are both equally liable for. I should imagine your DP is worried what would happen if you stop paying your share of the mortgage. I think you need to move out and get your own place or stick with a cheap rent (living costs that you've mentioned such as food, bills, etc aren't rent). The money you save put into into an investment ISA and start building up some capital behind you. After 5 years have another discussion. If you DP sees you've been sensible they may be more willing to buy together.

I’ve accepted this as I understand you can still be committed without marriage.

Perhaps (I'm not sure sure about that anyway tbh) but this man certainly isn't.

There's no way I'd stay in this situation.

I think he's being sensible. Why go into all these legal arrangements and then have to sell if you split up? That's also a massive pain even if he holds onto his share.

He doesn't want to get married, you're not a tenant and don't even have the rights of a tenant. You're an "excluded occupier" - essentially a guest that can be kicked out with no notice. Why should you have any rights to his house?

I would also be concerned if I was in your situation, as you'll be helping him accumulate a valuable asset while getting nothing back for yourself. Yes it's been great that being with him has enabled you to get out of debt and accumulate some savings, but long term, what is your plan? It does sound like he's not necessarily seeing your relationship as a permanent fixture in his life. Not sure what the answer is here, because if you split up with him you'll have to rent anyway, but the proposed situation is also (gently) raising red flags for me.

hmm, you were able to clear your debts and start saving because he allowed you to live rent free. Would you be in the same position if you were renting somewhere? if he still decides to stretch himself he doesn't really need your permission. Without you his council tax and all bills will drop so financially it's not such a huge deal for him.

I'm sorry but I think you're very unreasonable.

Say for example his house sells for £150k and he has a £50k deposit and we buy a place for £300k. I’ll put in £10k deposit and we split the mortgage 50/50 so if we split he’d get £200k plus 50% of whatever equity whilst I’d get £10k plus 50% of equity.

Why would he get £200k if he put in £50k?
Why would you only have £10k to contribute after a further 5 years paying no rent? It’s very possible he sees you as a financial liability, you came with huge debts and even with minimal outgoings have really low saving aspirations.

So he wants you to be his lodger? I take it you will have your own room then and behave as a lodger would, ie own cooking, washing and not having sex with the homeowner?

It's not normal for him to refuse your financial input into the home you clearly share and live in together. I guess you can't exactly force him but you're right to worry.
If you're paying as a tenant then you'd be better off just being a genuine tenant in your own one bed or even bedsit. At least then you could choose things and have private space. Why should you help pay his mortgage (not that he has one anymore) and have nothing to show for it. He can get a lodger if he wants money towards his house.

Small point: the OP didn't "use" her DP to get out of debt.

She met him when she was at a low point and had been left with debt from an abusive marriage. Her DP knew this at the start and has watched her pay off the debt and pull herself up into a position in which she has savings, while paying her contribution to bills/food/living costs.

Yes, this is easier to do with reduced living costs, and his ownership of his own place removed the financial pressure of a private rent. He has been sentient and financially competent enough to buy and fully pay off his house. I think we can assume that he made the deicison to not charge rent with the full facts and open eyes.

In the meantime, he has had a live-in partner with all the comfort, connection and support that comes from that. Relationships are supposed to be mutually beneficial and I assume that her DP was not just housing OP so she cold sort her finances out.

That period of OP's life has passed, she has got savings and they have now been together 4 years. It is NORMAL to want the situation to evolve. Proposing proprtional ownership of a shared property is entirely reasonable at this stage.

I do get it, i really do. And I hope you have security and love from now on. But I can totally see his side. And as someone who was in his position, married someone far less well off than myself, and losing a huge amount of money and security because of it, I regret trusting him, I regret letting him in, and wish I had had the foresight to do what your guy is doing. Your way means if things do go pear-shaped, he has to sell up, unless he is able to buy you out.

I don't blame him for wanting to protect what is his, been there done that, and would not give away half of my house again... But I also understand your need to feel like it is your home that you can make decisions on and buy things for.

however, I do think that he needs to take a leap and move on, so you should buy together, so that it is considered equally your home. You put in deposits that you can afford, you then pay the mortgage 50/50 which builds up each of your share in it. or you own it in the ratio of the deposits and pay the mortgage accordingly in the same ratio you could save money separately and every time a re-mortgage is due, you pay off a lump sum that increases your deposit and share.

You should each ring fence your deposit as PP have suggested so that both of you always get back your original investment. That would be fair.

For me it comes down to a very simple question: are both parties benefiting financially in more or less equal terms (doesn't have to exactly the same, but in terms of the value of the benefit).

So, if he wants you to continue to live in his house and pay "rent" so that you had zero claim on the property, over the life of your relationship he would be continuing to build assets and you would not.

However, if you agreed that the "rent" you pay would be quite low, in order to accomodate you being able to continue to accumulate assets of your own albeit in line with your earnings vs what you'd accumulate as a "couple" - savings, investment or even a buy-to-let property that was cheap enough for you to afford to buy - then that would be probably be fine.

The other issue is that this is your home. So whether you're a tenant or an owner, are you going to have a say in decoration? How changes are made etc? Becuase that's a key factor too.

just to follow up on something a pp said, he isn’t expecting you to pay extra now and for the next 5 years so that he can save for the new house?

assuming that’s not the case, tell him your plan is to start saving as much as you can now towards the new house. In five years time you can make a decision together and If he decides he doesn’t want to include you in any way on the mortgage then you can then use your savings as a deposit for a small flat.