To be gleeful that most of us were right

[Wranglestar]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/adding-vat-to-private-school-fees-has-had-no-obvious-impact-on-state-sector-applications-390546/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2ATdaVlNkJsbtC-KizuW4Fw41obnpvezxnFv4IAFwzJPHXmU90Awr5eqAaem9tMIsn9I0vHSC4jrdYONIA#0rd9makyd4264nstc4us9j77yk5kaoswtLondon Economic

And that private schools has had no impact on state school places. The rich have simply - paid more. Excellent news!

Most Scottish independent schools are charitable bodies. They aren’t companies and don’t have a profit motive. Universities are charities too. They don’t have to give all of their money and facilities away to be charities.

You sound envious.

Its just a bit of vat. Far too much fuss was made of it. Most seem to have just paid it, as you pay vat on other services.

VAT has nothing to do with charitable status. Independent schools that didn’t have charitable status didn’t have to pay VAT either. As for most people paying VAT, well the wealthy parents didn’t pay it, they paid fees in advance of the election so the most elite private schools now have huge amounts of cash in their bank accounts, the smaller schools with less affluent parents and a high % of SEND pupils are struggling because parents couldn’t afford to pay the fees, so pupil numbers have decreased and some schools have closed.

And no, it’s not just a bit of VAT. It’s thousands of pounds per child and it’s not just VAT. Many businesses are struggling due to increased NI and minimum wage costs, private schools are not immune from this. Plus private schools have had to contend with the end of business rates relief and large increases in TPS contributions. It’s a perfect storm for both schools and parents (with private school parents facing high increases in the cost of living like anyone else).

And for what? Independent schools save the taxpayer money and contribute significantly to the economy. Why would you want to damage that?

It's a tax like other taxes, we pay many taxes. Its no more important to ensure that private school fees don't incur VAT than for any other items or services that VAT is levied on. It shouldn't be gloated about but the OP saying that the outcomes predicted by the many, many threads haven't occurred, appears correct. Some of the threads were predicting dreadful scenarios.

Not just a bit of VAT. An extra £800 a month for my Dcs. For fucking nothing. And the school is busily selling off capital assets, and not renewing the contracts of peripatic staff. Our school is the single biggest employer in our extended area. Things are winding down.

And today DH was told by his workplace that the business is going bust. So we will be losing the bulk of our income.

'A little bit of VAT'. has what is our story writ large.

But it's okay isn't it. Because we are all rich arseholes who deserve to be fucking screwed.

Charging fees on services whether private education or an electrician providing a service seems fair.

I would never refer to you as a 'rich assholes'. We all have taxes to pay and VAT is a tax on services and goods. We all make choices of where to spend money. If anyone loses a job, they search out another one, everyone is the same in that. With such high earning capabilities I'm sure he'll find another high paid job.

Hundreds of thousands of people struggle. Using private school is a choice. Other people struggle to pay their heating, or food bills which aren't luxuries.

Edit to correct the quotation.

if you don't refer to us as rich arseholes then clearly you are not a regular on the VAT threads.

VAT on bank interest? Why not, that will hit the wealthy. VAT on new houses? VAT on all food? VAT on public transport?

Education is exempt from VAT the world over as education is deemed a good thing. I think it’s sad the UK government is one of the very few in the world that doesn’t appreciate education. It taxes private schools at the same time as drastically underfunding state schools, ensuring everyone is dragged down to the same level.

It’s just over six months since VAT became payable. In that time over 50 schools have closed and many more are struggling. As it stands, the taxpayer will be lucky if this policy generates enough to break even. Surely tax is to generate funds, you wouldn’t have a tax that actually cost the taxpayer money would you? And for some families, they have personally had to face dreadful scenarios with schools closing at short notice and their children being without school places for weeks.

There are lots of goods and services that are VAT exempt. Most of the World exempts education for a very good reason. Maybe we could introduce VAT on gambling instead. What do you think?

Well its not up to me, but if it's introduced on gambling so be it. You seemed too focused on what I think. It's on school fees, so be it.

Well its not up to me, but if it's introduced on gambling so be it. You seemed too focused on what I think. It's on school fees, so be it.

Well done Labour. So depressing.

Well if you are posting about something, surely you should have knowledge about the subject and be able to debate it? Let’s hope they introduce a tax that means you have to pay thousands extra per year, so be it…

@Wranglestar I'm pleased that you're gleeful that the following has happened in the first 9 months of this policy:

• 55 schools closed in academic year 24/24
• 16K pupils had their education disrupted
• 100s teachers and staff made redundant
• SEND children disproportionately impacted
• bursaries reduced for lowrf income families

For what? No money is going to state schools. But maybe you just get off on watching children being the victims of a spiteful policy? It says so much about you as a person

The fact they rushed to tax the education of children yet still haven't taxed gambling or vapes tells you everything! They think independent schools are more damaging than vapes or gambling.

Zero money going to state schools and already way less than estimated income in the first year because so many have left

UK is now only country in the world to tax education. We are now ideologically behind Nigeria who have just reversed the policy. We are ideologically behind a country where only 20% of girls have a secondary education.

You support taxing the education of children, you just need to own that.

It also isn’t as if they don’t pay any VAT. One of our clients is a private school group who had a capital spend projection of £100m over 5 years. They were going to expand their schools, renovating existing buildings, building more accommodation etc. This was an investment in the future of their business. As their projected roll has declined, and their ability to make inflationary increase on fees has reduced, coupled with the NI increase, they have pulled their capital spend programme. Along with the loss of construction work, meaning a loss of tax revenues from that, that’s £20m of VAT on the construction projects.

Incidentally, we’ve also seen universities putting construction projects on hold because of the dire state of government funding, coupled with the absolute shitshow that is the student visa system meaning they are struggling to accept the overseas students who usually boost their income so they can afford to educate UK students. All this along with the same pressures the rest of us are facing, means they are also pulling back on capital spend. More tax income lost.

Unfortunately Labour are too swept up in the politics of populism, and any move they make to try and kick start the economy is met with a collective throwing up of hands because “oh increasing the national debt”

I have no idea how we get out of it, but one thing is for certain, targeting education in a way that will damage the future prospects for our young people is a sure fire way to a weaker economy in the long term. This policy might have gained them a small amount of kudos for those who envy people being able to afford private school, but it will hurt the economy in the long term.

Well said 👏

Independent schools have always paid VAT and taxes. This is a tax on parents who also already pay all their taxes.

I have a colleague who had to take her kid out of private school due to her DH losing his job. The biggest offence was that they had to pay a term’s fees in lieu of notice and VAT on top of that, for negative value added to their family. So the Government benefits from them getting nothing at all!

Many parents at the more expensive schools have pre-paid fees for years ahead so have avoided the VAT (as long as the pre payment scheme was worded correctly). As predicted, smaller schools (often nurturing ones) have closed, other schools are struggling, many families have removed their children, and the wealthiest haven’t been affected because they’ve avoided it. Entirely pointless policy.

You don't think that 16K children having their education disrupted, 55 schools closing and 100s of staff and teachers being made redundant is bad?
Not through their own doing but purposeful state interference?

Fuck me. How bad does it have to be? 100K kids with a disrupted education? 200 schools closing?

Everything we predicted has happened!

The children most impacted are SEND + those from low income families.

You support the taxing of SEND education?

I tend to hold my concerns for working people who struggle to feed their children or heat their properties, not people who struggle to pay VAT on private school fees. No one needs private schools. Maybe if no one had access the entire education system might be improved for everyone rather than for just a small minority of individuals. All rather than a few.

According to data:

"While the number of independent schools overall increased from 2,421 to 2,456, insiders say the figure would likely have risen further without the disruption caused by the new tax.
The government has dismissed claims of widespread impact, saying school closures are not unusual.

Approximately 50 mainstream private schools typically close each year due to a range of reasons,” a DfE spokesperson said.
“Ending tax breaks for private schools will raise £1.8 billion annually by 2029–30, supporting public services and improving outcomes for the 94% of children in state schools.”

So some closing and overall the number increased.....

The money isn't going on state schools, it's going on housing! Starmer said that.

The court told Labour not to use the term tax breaks because it isn't a fact, it's a polituccal slogan. A new taxation of something which was previously zero rated (education) isn't, and never has brrn a tax break.

3.5% have left since January, this table is Treasury own calculations which shows the reduced income based on this %, you can clearly see that on 3.5% leaving we are already well under 1B per year.
If we get to 10% then it brings in £0. The more children that leave, the less the revenue get and this is a policg of diminishing returns.

Labour have lied to you and continue to lie. This policy is only about harming children in independent sector, nothing to do with improving state schools.