To be gleeful that most of us were right

[Wranglestar]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/adding-vat-to-private-school-fees-has-had-no-obvious-impact-on-state-sector-applications-390546/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2ATdaVlNkJsbtC-KizuW4Fw41obnpvezxnFv4IAFwzJPHXmU90Awr5eqAaem9tMIsn9I0vHSC4jrdYONIA#0rd9makyd4264nstc4us9j77yk5kaoswtLondon Economic

And that private schools has had no impact on state school places. The rich have simply - paid more. Excellent news!

It really didn’t act as a deterrent at all. Not here or in other countries rn. Have you looked at other EU countries still with the DA?

Peak asylum was 2002 in grants, pre Brexit. You’re just focusing on one type of entry.

Peak asylum was mostly from those outside of the EU, they mainly came here via flights not originating from EU countries.

I really struggle with your argument that leaving the EU has had no effect, the reality is that boat entry rocketed once we officially left the EU.

As i said earlier, Philp has said that not having the DA negatively affected returns of those documented from an EU country.

As he was at the HO i'd suggest he may know more about this subject then you or i.

My opinion of him rose, its unusual for a politician to be so candid, we need more of this.

Lorries mostly pre boats.

If you look at actual figures you’ll see it’s all publicly available.

Look up asylum claims 2002 at about 100k and how difficult it is for countries still in the DA.

Are you aware if what’s going on in Germany, Italy, France etc and their migration pressures? Or do you think the DA provides deterrent to stop that?

Don't recall hotels being used in 2002, do you? We could deal with lorries, UK police in France and vice versa.. not so boats.

Its also 23 years ago.

What you re missing is Philp's admission on EA.

Its seems you supported Brexit? but are now seeking to remove responsibility on its results.

Where did the 100k granted asylum stay before they were processed?

I voted Remain but that doesn’t mean the DA is a deterrent for any country. Can you say in which country in the EU now where it is a deterrent?

I’m happy to hear where it’s working to resolve issues for others?

11,000 kids have lost their places at private schools because of the changes. This is terribly sad… But the thing is, the richest of the kids in private schools, like mine, are just now accessing an even more exclusive education and you know what, in your own words… I am utterly gleeful! Our kids and those with our kids will all just stick together.

And the parents of the children who are now in state schools will be using their wealth to ensure their children have every advantage over their peers.

@Bluebellwood129 as would I so good for them. The system screws you unfairly and because of petty jealousy, you screw it back

Or is it too much to hope they’ll put some of their time and effort into helping the schools they are now in?

Fundraising, taking part in the PTA, perhaps coming in to talk about their careers?

Can I just say on behalf of the vast majority of Parents who sent our DC to Private Schools we are not all like this

Yes but there are thousands of parents who should already be helping their children's state schools.

@Hoppinggreen and nor have I previously. However, when you pay the amount of tax we do (and my DF does even as a pensioner - and I am talking many thousands a month) the amount of inheritance tax that will be due when various members of my family including us will die, that the govt witter about the lack of money they have when they come into power before spunk huge amounts on union pay deals and then start restricting choice regarding paying extra to school our children on the basis of jealousy then yeah, it begins to grind.

i think it's desperately patronising to have a narrative that the rich private school parents are going to 'help' state schools. That just plays into the idea that state school parents either don't care, or don't have the competence to advocate for their own children. Bridget Phillipson talks that shit too. It's insulting to state school parents and to be frank if I were a state school parent listening to that bullshit I would be incandescent with rage.

The VAT on school fees was always going to be a fiscal disaster. Economic polices formed from ideological spite usually are.

As a state school parent of children in state schools constantly begging for money, because the allocated funds from Government only cover teaching plus utilities and no more, it is actually really difficult to know what to do. Contribute cash and raise your own school’s facilities above those locally? Then attract better families as well? Is this not privatisation via the back door somewhat. For schools, pupils and families and how easy or difficult they are to deal with and what grades they turn out eventually, it is like “money” too. This Government needs to be careful with the nonsense they come out with sometimes.

Labour has made private more elite that is true. It’s not a good thing to widen the gap although some might be glad.

Why are state schools reliant on a small percentage of private school parents somehow miraculously improving the state system? Why have the parents of the other 10 million children been unable to bring about change and improvements over the years? Have those parents just not tried hard enough or put enough time and effort in?

Im not gleeful, but I didn't think there would be a rush of children swamping state schools as the numerous threads suggested. I think it was an example of catastrophising something that was important to people that have private school use and thinking 'everyone ' should be sorry for their misfortune to pax a bit more tax.

Local private school here is built on a huge amount of land, facilities for every sport and activity you can think of, and pupils are very privileged. Their parents may not realise that of course, living in that bubble.

They’re not but they can certainly do their bit.

And they aren’t “private school parents”. They’re parents of children at that school like all the others.

I was replying to a poster who suggested this sub-set of parents would spend their time trying to give their own children an advantage over the others. Suggesting they had time to spare. Many parents don’t. I was suggesting they use this free time for the benefit of all the children at their children’s school. Like so many others do, but some can’t.

“I’m not gleeful, but I didn't think there would be a rush of children swamping state schools as the numerous threads suggested.”

There are not enough of them to swamp state schools, but kids are being taken out of private schools, that is a fact. Combo of VAT and cost of living and job insecurity. Happening in even the most elite schools now. It is what it is . If the Government would rather pay for the families of middle class kids to go to state schools, they have to pay. For plenty of people there is a choice they do make between the two sectors. Those are the kids affected.

I agree. The people I know who went with state schools are clever and organised - their children are clever and do well in school. They don’t need someone to come in and tell everyone (teachers, parents) what’s what.

Similarly there’s been quite a bit about breakfast clubs in the press. I know there are children whose parents don’t make sure they eat breakfast … but I am sure that most parents do.

I think you sound like an arse OP. I can't afford to send my kids private but I feel bad for those who COULD and now can no longer who've had to remove their kids from their schools. Those kids will have potentially lost their mates and faced disruption.
There's a private school near me that closed at the end of last term. Gave parents and staff about 3 weeks notice. Now all those kids have had to find school places (taking away from other kids like mine!)- including the ones part way through GCSEs and A Levels so potentially screwing their results AND the staff have had to find new jobs.
Doesn't sound like something to be "gleeful" about to me.

I was actually referring to the money they have spare after putting their children in the state system, not time.

Are the private school doing something wrong providing their students with access to excellent facilities and endless sports? What’s the issue here? Ought the private school not do this because state schools can’t do this and so it’s not mair? Is it a race to the bottom?

Interesting to be at a PTA meeting recently and hear that we raised £10k last year and the neighbouring primary school with a wealthy catchment raised £100k. I was staggered. The money we raised goes on the occasional iPad for classrooms etc and subsidising trips for the most deprived pupils but I imagine our neighbouring school has pretty much all they’ll ever need in terms of classroom resources. Privatisation by the back door.

Not at all. But to pretend they are charities to avoid paying vat on fees isn't right. Vat should and is now charged whether they pretended to be a charity or not. The post their results after cherry picking children and naturally will be better than most state results who have many young people from a variety of backgrounds and different needs, abilities etc. So parents pay a bit of VAT now, so what. Its not the catastrophe that all the threads claimed it would be.