To be gleeful that most of us were right

[Wranglestar]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/adding-vat-to-private-school-fees-has-had-no-obvious-impact-on-state-sector-applications-390546/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2ATdaVlNkJsbtC-KizuW4Fw41obnpvezxnFv4IAFwzJPHXmU90Awr5eqAaem9tMIsn9I0vHSC4jrdYONIA#0rd9makyd4264nstc4us9j77yk5kaoswtLondon Economic

And that private schools has had no impact on state school places. The rich have simply - paid more. Excellent news!

The communist countries are laughing at us. British education is so bad, parents (including desperate ones doing all they can for their kids) feel the need to send their kids private, but are taxed for that too.

If you want to tax the rich, then do just that. Directly. Increase the tax rate for the £150k+ earners. Oh but Labour shied away from that.

That cohort already pay some of the highest taxes in the world comparitavely. Hence brain drain and office relocation. They aren’t ’the rich.’ Unfortunately it’s everyone else who doesn’t pay their fair share in comparison. That’s asset (wealth) rich, low and mid earners.

Hmm maybe. OK I don't know what the solution is, but taxing education is fundamentally wrong.

Yes it is and it’s the combination of all those policies which has seen a huge wealth exodus - 2nd only to Moscow this year.

She’s attacking private nurseries now.
Check this:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m5Pmsc4rN0g

Ana Boulter sums the situation nicely.

IFS say this policy will raise around 5 to 6bn over the course of the Parliament.. 5 years.

That was based on an assumption that any reduction in the number of pupils in independent schools would be balanced by the parents involved spending the money they had saved on school fees on other VATable goods and services. This assumption is, to say the least, questionable. The evidence to date also suggests that IFS underestimated the sensitivity of pupil numbers to increasing prices. They also totally failed to consider the likelihood that some schools would close, leaving some parents without an independent option.

To say again, we don't yet know the effect of this policy. Most parents planning to use independent schools also apply for state school places so that they have a backup option. The fact there has been little change in the numbers applying for state places therefore tells us nothing. We will have a better idea of the impact in September. It is possible that this policy will raise money for the government. It is also possible that it will reduce the government's income.

Everyone wants good public services, but most want someone else to pay. The rich already provide most of the government's income. The amount paid by the rich went up significantly under the Tories, contrary to popular belief. Increasing taxes on the richest often doesn't work. Gordon Brown introduced a top rate of 50% income tax for those earning over £150k. Instead of raising additional revenue, this actually resulted in reduced revenue from these high earners, so the rest of us ended up having to pay more tax to make up the shortfall.

London has the highest rate of millionaires leaving, apart from Moscow, in the last 10 years. Couple the non dom changes, with some of the highest taxes on income/CGT too now, with an anomalous tax on education and a crumbling NHS- get ready for a mass exodus of talent which began with Brexit. We are literally haemorrhaging talent, money and ambition. That means average earners will have to pay more tax, no doubt about that and benefits will be cut and services too.

It really is. Labour will struggle more now they’re driving wealth out of the country.

The OBR report says the fall has come as a result of Brexit, tax rises and a fall in the value of the pound. The exodus began in 2014 so it’s a bit rich to blame the current government.

Another issue is the number of British private schools that are now setting up overseas franchises.

Close friend is moving abroad this year to head up a new one of these for a big name UK private school.

As this increases, this is likely to see a reduction in kids being sent to the UK for education, will make moving overseas more attractive to high-income Brits (no education issues or boarding needed for their kids) and both decreases the wealth of the UK and makes it harder for our kids to compete on the global stage.

It's not blaming them as being the cause (many different contributors there).

But I do blame them for making a bad situation fundamentally worse and being economically inept.

The OBR is not some sort of infallible gospel, far from it.

Right now we could position the U.K. really well given the mess elsewhere. Backtrack the non dom and education tax, deals with US and EU (as we are the middleman), all whilst keeping China sweet and working the US/China relationship as diplomatically as possible. It’s actually a very very important role that we have.
If we position ourselves as a politically and economically stable country during this storm, we can take the middle rationale ground and our poorest and most vulnerable will benefit long term. The money would come back, the pound would stabilise. If the left in Starmer’s party would just allow him to crack on with all the sensible economic policies that are required and re establish Labour as the honest working party, all would be well again and they may even get re-elected. But quick decisive action is required. So I doubt it will happen. Cut the stamp duty on the LSE as well, celebrate our key industries such as finance and education rather than destroying them.

A symbolic policy for no gain against the children of the key taxpayer demographic was always going to be a complete disaster. Non dom can be rejigged into a flat tax rate like Italy too. Better to get something rather than nothing! If they do nothing we will be looking at a housing crash quite soon as well.

True. Take a successful sector, damage it and watch it grow o/s instead.

It growing overseas instead is a risk, because then those countries build their education brand up and if they successfully also build universities, that is then the future workforce/talent. All this stuff is just so shortsighted, especially into a falling birth rate. Every future worker, especially a well educated one, matters a lot, to the whole of society.

I don't think anyone thought it would 'collapse', just that the numbers coming into state and their cost would mean that the policy was probably going to be cost neutral, and not the 'saviour of state education' it was suggested to be.

Everyone would moan about being asked to pay extra for exactly the same thing. If you bought a new car at an agreed price of 30k, and then on collection they said to you 'sorry, we are a bit short of money this month, it will now be 36k, I think you might be a bit annoyed that the car dealership hadn't told you at time of purchase and that you were having to pay for their poor financial planning?

Your car dealership would have no choice if the extra £6k was due to unforeseen, newly applied tariffs.

Only Labour would do this. And drive out a successful education sector. It’s something we do well but no, it needs to be shrunk and off shored.

Yes, but my question was would you as a customer be happy about it, would you feel it was fair, not whether there was a choice.

A tariff on new cars simply benefits the second hand car market. Plus a company cannot pass on a tariff under U.K. law, the consumer gets a choice at the point of purchase. If there is a substantial change in price, the consumer can opt out.

It is completely different where children are involved and emotionally settled in a school. The parents may be self funding the education (rather than relying on the taxpayer) but as it is a continuing service, the tariff on goods analogy is misplaced. It’s more like ambushing people receiving a continuous service that has only partially been performed - so for example, someone self funding private cancer treatment to suddenly be told it’s now 20 per cent more expensive and by the way, you can’t just transfer across to the NHS seamlessly, join the back of the queue, even if it means you may die due to delays (that’s what it feels like to kids with SEND).

I haven't made poor life choices. My life is very nice. I just think people who send their children to private school and then moan about having to pay VAT are entitled and deserve every misery that befalls them.

Good! London has been destroyed by millionaires!

“Good! London has been destroyed by millionaires”

@Katbum - so either you are economically illiterate or you are a bad actor.
In this economic climate, nobody wants outlows of money. The situation is far too dangerous macroeconomically and also from a defence perspective, given the stand off between US and China and our duties as a NATO member. So evidently you are likely just another bad actor.

“deserve every misery that befalls them.”

Many parents sacrifice a lot to scrape together the fees to provide their child with the best education they feel they can give them, many of whom have been failed by the state system. Many cannot now afford the fees and will have to use a system which doesn’t work for their children, at a cost to the taxpayer of £8k a year. Wishing misery on families like this says quite a lot about you as a person.

Why? Do you not care about whether the policy affects any positive change? Do you not want policy makers to do things that help the people that (I assume) you feel should be helped?

Surely, the vast majority of people want a policy that improves SEND provision for all, and gets more money into the state system. This VAT policy doesn’t do that for lots of reasons that have been explored on this thread.

I have no idea why anyone would be so prejudiced that they would wish misery to befall children. I’m sure you think yourself ‘progressive’. You really aren’t, no progressive nation taxes education, tax exemptions for education is a well trodded, exclusively adopted approach.

Bit full on, I always find people who won’t pay for their own children but whine about those that do entitled. I think getting more people into work is the answer to countering this bitterness.