To be gleeful that most of us were right

[Wranglestar]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/adding-vat-to-private-school-fees-has-had-no-obvious-impact-on-state-sector-applications-390546/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2ATdaVlNkJsbtC-KizuW4Fw41obnpvezxnFv4IAFwzJPHXmU90Awr5eqAaem9tMIsn9I0vHSC4jrdYONIA#0rd9makyd4264nstc4us9j77yk5kaoswtLondon Economic

And that private schools has had no impact on state school places. The rich have simply - paid more. Excellent news!

Neither tbh, but it's a niche post in the first place as most of us are not in the position to pay school fees anyway, so a bit of an odd thing to be pleased about, in my opinion!

I would assume the change might be over the longer term.

ie pupils who are already there / parents already had places, would still go. But perhaps in future, less parents will use them?

I possibly could afford private education, by the overall cost is reaching a point where I’m querying if the added value can possibly be worth it vs the ability to supply a house deposit or no student loans instead.

@Wranglestar why would you be gleeful? Not everyone that sends their kids to private school are rich. And the argument was they would pull the kids to state schools and invest in state schools - which if they haven’t pulled their kids they won’t be investing in them? So who is being served here?

Feels like a bit of a jump? More students getting their first choice school =/= private school VAT increase having no impact.

I would say it’s similar to any large policy change, impacts take time.

You’d never guess. MN has had about 3 threads a day since Labour got in, furious about this policy and catastrophising about the impact on the state sector, all by people who never had any intention of sending their kids to a state school anyway.

I'm more interested in if the VAT actually makes it to state schools and then what impact it has.

You’re not right because applications are not the point - private school parents have long also applied for state school places so I wouldn’t expect that to change (though it has gone up by 9% in some areas, which isn’t insignificant).

What will be interesting is when we know how many of those applications have been taken up. But it’s too early to make that call, I’m afraid.

What is also of note is the impact on sixth form places as in areas like London and the south east, that’s where the pressure in places is.

We went private because we didn’t get any of our preferred state choices. A couple of years later we would have been fine.

You sound both vindictive and ignorant.

@Ph3
Not everyone that sends their kids to private school are rich.

Perhaps not in the context of their disposable income after all outgoings including school fee’s. But certainly earning sufficiently above the average wage to be able to afford the place in the first place.

It’s true that a private education is, in most circumstances, a luxury item. Therefore it seems reasonable it should attract VAT.

I hate tax as much as the next person by the way.

We are the only country bar Greece (I think) that taxes eduction in Europe. Good thing we left the EU, I guess. Not an exclusive club I’d be proud of being a part of.

It's too early to call

I'm not against vat on fees but it's much too soon to be saying anything either way, I fear- the effects won't really be known until it comes to places taken up rather than number of applications (many parents sending kids private also do a state application). Very much hope you are right though, OP.

Well maybe but I think being gleeful is never a nice thing.

Quietly reassured and perhaps more confident in your judgment would be more appropriate.

In at least one EU country (Finland I believe) private education is banned.

Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that it's far too early to tell. The vast majority of those going private at year 7 always did apply for a back-up state place. The useful information will be how many accept their state school - I would imagine it'll be significantly more than last year.......

Which is not the same thing, is it? So I’m not sure why you mentioned it.

I would agree with Ddakji that most people planning on sending their kids private will also apply for state schools so we can't be certain of the impact.

But we are considering private school in a couple of years when DC gets to secondary school age. An additional 20% is just something we'd factor in but undoubtedly that will leave us less to spend on holidays, days out, luxuries etc. I am not complaining at all of course and I realise how lucky we are to be able to consider private in the first place, but the amount we spend in other areas of the economy would decrease if we were paying more in fees and if there's lots of people in that position it may well have an impact on the economy overall.

@JustMyView13
Therefore it seems reasonable it should attract VAT. - and I could agree with you if the tax system in the UK wasn’t already so punitive. Unfortunately, it is highly punitive and at certain point people will have had enough as they pay a high amount of tax on don’t get anything in return at all for that.
ONS have stated that a record people have left the UK in 2024 and brain drain is becoming a real concern…

People who are rich enough will carry on not paying their fair share of tax (because they are not subject to employee rules in the same way) and people who work to live and can afford to send their kids to private school will have to tighten their belts and spend less in restaurants, supermarkets, days out and that will hurt the UK economy. So still not sure who is better off?

For us, it was the private school that was a back up. If I could have afforded the houses closer to the better schools I would have spent my money that way and secured a place.

It's too early to say until the first round of acceptances/waiting list places etc have been clarified a bit more-it may be that many are still deciding between state and private and will still ultimatelygo with private. But in our area- grammar school entry mark on offers day has gone up by 4-6 marks for the nearest grammar schools, entry distance has then tightened on the better regarded secondary schools in the area to the point where ds wouldn't have got into the one 0.8 miles from our house. That suggests there has been at least some impact because locally at least this was considered a lower birth rate year at primary school.

This

And also this

What is actually happening is that those people with kids already at private school or who had made plans to send their children to private school have just tightened their belts and are therefore spending less on other things.

Agree. The government’s own projections said that any parents who chose state over private due to VAT would spend the money saved on fees on other VAT-bearing luxuries instead (I disagree, I think it’s more likely they’d choose to work less, but that’s the govt view). By the same token, if parents are keeping their kids at private but paying extra, it must mean they will be spending less on other luxuries.

It's a very odd thing to be 'gleeful' about, unless you're incredibly bitter/jealous of people who can afford to privately educate their kids?

Are the parents of kids at private school allowed to be gleeful when none of the funds raised through applying NI make it to improving the absolute state of state schools?

Ah, thought not.

@Ph3 I agree. But something has to give. Grass root services are stripped back so bare there’s not enough to go around. The public education system is running on good will & miracles. Healthcare is inaccessible in many parts of the country, and there’s an ever increasing welfare bill that needs funding. It all has to come from somewhere.
I think the UK tax system needs a complete overhaul, but I don’t think anyone can be bothered to tackle that. So they’re left snipping at the low hanging fruit. Tax on private schools is an easy one. Until 2021, all women paid VAT on period products. For context. One of those taxes clearly impacts more people, and takes more tax pounds from the poorest than the other.

Completely agree with everything you said.
I feel sad for the UK and how things are. Tax system needs a complete overhaul, benefits needs a complete overhaul, nhs needs a complete overhaul.
I miss the UK very much but can’t see myself moving back for the foreseeable future