Changes to PIP

[Orangesandlemons77]

It looks like to qualify for PIP people will need 4 points in one area, see here from the Times
"In future, ministers will require applicants to score at least four points on at least one activity to qualify"
Not sure if this means in each section (care, mobility)

This would exclude quite a few people I think

There is some misunderstanding of the statistics here (wilful or not, I can’t be sure).

If 1 in 5 new cars are owned by Motability that has no relation to the number of cars on the road or the number of people who have cars.

Motability is an expensive, restrictive scheme for people who have to use it and they insist that cars are changed every three years unless you have very specific, rare circumstances. Those new cars are largely going to the same people over and over again, not all going to different people.

There are huge numbers of people (like me) who qualify for Motability but just can’t afford it so don’t use it. What I did do was buy one of those ex-Motability vehicles that was sold to a dealer when it came off lease at three years old. I did that because I have generous friends who helped with the cost.

There are a lot of vehicles bought by Motability because they constantly replace them, not because everyone can afford to have them. The rental payment is high, mileage and modifications restricted and the up front payment you have to come up with every time you are forced to change the car is huge.

Even vehicles like mine with complex adaptations and hydraulic ramps are replaced at the most every five years (mine was three when I got it) - Motability is a business as well as being registered as a charity and it makes money. It’s not a government body.

I can only echo what other posters have said about public transport - the last time I tried to take a train it was cancelled and the replacement bus service was a completely inaccessible coach. I wasn’t able to get to an important work meeting as a result. In that situation PIP covers the cost of getting a taxi that would take my wheelchair so I wasn’t late to work.

The mobility component of my allowance covers the cost of my vehicle so I can work and have a life - I’m lucky I can work from home but I do need to go in regularly too. Without it I couldn’t afford to work, and that isn’t going to help me or the economy.

Nobody gets their rent paid because they are on PIP.

@Ohthatsabitshit I’m sure she said something along those lines! I’ll ask her again and report back.

"1 in 5 new cars are motability cars. Are you saying that 1 in 5 people purchasing a new car are unable to walk more than 50m? I don't think that stacks up."

You can get a mobility car for reasons other than that such as severe mental impairment. Mobility cars are rented not purchased and we had to pay £3000 on top ( for one that was suitable to accommodate all his equipment and carers) when we got one for our son when he moved to supported living.

How do you know that? They would not be awarded enhanced mobility if there was not a good enough reason for it. That rate is very difficult to get.

Do ask or just look on line, but PIP is nothing to do with getting your rent paid.

my sons disabled and I’ve helped my friends fill out their forms too, as their sons went to the same special school as mine did so I have a lot of friends with disabled children.. I’m all for people getting what they’re entitled to! My comment was specifically for people who are playing the system x

Very very few people play the system to get PIP, it is a difficult benefit to get fraudulently due to the amount of evidence you have to provide at assessment.

I know several people with motability cars. Not a single one has any problems going about daily activities.

Yes, that may have something to do with the fact that they have the car

I sympathise I really do but with the number of kids being diagnosed as ‘demand avoidant’ do you really think they can all be supported financially for life?

This profile of young adults ‘looking fine, and you wouldn’t be able to tell if you spoke to them, but they’re unable to work because of ND/anxiety/ demand avoidance’ is becoming frightening common and embedding their issues by paying them to stay at home and not face the real world is the worst thing we could do.

Loads of people on PIP rely on it so that they CAN work. Take PIP away and they won’t be able to work.

Those people will then need to claim a whole different more expensive out of work benefits to survive. And plus the economic growth the government wants will be messed up further. Why is the government being so disingenuous on this?

This drip drip of benefits bashing news and horrible insinuations of false PIP claims like that there is ‘over diagnosis’ of different health conditions is wild. It’s famously very hard to get PIP, involving brutal assessments.

If I hear someone is on PIP, I know they have been put through the absolute wringer to get to that stage and need a lot of help and they have my absolute sympathy.

Our society is ageing, our public health is through the floor due to widespread poverty due to cost of living and unmanaged house price and rent price inflation under the Tories. People who are coping with disabilities are finding life harder and harder to manage and so I don’t know why this is news for the Labour government. I’m shocked at their punching down on vulnerable people.

No, only 20% of PIP claimants work.

I have a friend who gets PIP and works . She spends so much money on taxis as has mobility issues and on her days off as she is part time she is bedridden and in agony and needs codeine. She sleeps and sleeps and then starts the cycle again. She has said she would feel better if she didn’t work but when she stopped for a while she spent days and days crying as was so lonely and work is the only time she sees people and feels valued. She recognises it may actually shorten her life as she’s pushing her body too much.

Something needs to change with it.
I know someone who claims it for anxiety - gets the full amount (god knows how) when she’s out partying every weekend and regularly travelling around the country via train for shopping and lunches.

It surely can’t surprise you that it’s harder to find work if you are disabled?

That seems unlikely.

What do you suggest as an alternative? You don't get a demand avoidant diagnosis without it being pathological and extremely disruptive to everyday ability to function. Dsis has tried literally everything. There is no support - financial or otherwise (he needs a professional to deal with the myriad of issues he has, and guide him through each and every step). These people simply end up dropping from the radar - homelessness, addiction, suicide. Had the state been better at supporting them earlier on (post-adoption in this case) then they wouldn't be in this hideous situation.

You’d think so wouldn’t you.

The question is more, what do you suggest as an alternative? How will we pay for all these young people to spend their life on benefits with these conditions?

I understand that this is a condition you have little understanding or experience of, and feel limited sympathy for, but what would your solution be if it was a different situation? If we had an increase in children born, say deaf and blind, who would need life long support would you be suggesting we don’t pay to support them and accept that their lives might end in homelessness and addiction or would you want to support them?

I wonder with a lot of the lower level cases where the money actually goes. If someone needs a lot of prompting - but gets that from a family member anyway - is the £72 a week really needed? Does a person who can only cook using a microwave necessarily actually get better meals under PIP?

I also wonder in some of the mental health cases if PIP is actually helpful. Say you're a borderline PIP case who struggles with getting dressed or leaving the house. If those things improve, you lose £4000 a year. Mightn't that actually disincentivise recovery?

How did she get through the interview?

The interviews are designed to catch people out who are exaggerating their symptoms. It’s very difficult to get awarded PIP if you are even able to attend the interview - that’s part of the test actually!

Well, I've alluded to it. More effective support earlier on - prevention. But even then, the reality is that the current system is so convoluted and opaque that only the most determined and knowledgeable parents succeed in navigating it. Also, people are unwilling to pay for these services via taxes, so I guess the benefit bill will continue to increase. There comes a point where you have to ask whether investing more earlier on is the better option to prevent benefits bills spiralling. In the scenario I describe specifically though, dsis has taken a vulnerable young child out of the system early on, reduced the state's cost of keeping him (and his brother) and then effectively been dumped as soon as possible. And she's not the only one - countless similar stories from adoptive parents and adoptees. How is that fair?

How do you support somebody out of demand avoidance?

Ah, so you actually know nothing about it then, fair enough.

It's been proven time and time again that approprate intervention (assessment, diagnosis, intervention) during early childhood, from professionals trained in neurodevelopmental conditions and behavioural science, can enable many to cope with everyday demands. If it's diagnosed too late, or the right support is not given, then it's become pretty entrenched as the brain has fully developed and is no longer able to adapt.