To think the past is being misrepresented on here?

[ChilliLips]

Not all the time obviously but didn’t want a waffly title.

I feel like lately I’m seeing a lot of posts describing a past I don’t recognise. Apparently schools used to be relaxed, have no rules, fewer demands. Whereas I’m sure I remember uniform inspections, SATS, end of year tests, mocks, weekly spelling tests at primary, Saturday detentions, and don’t forget the worst punishment of all - the CHAIR!

I have also seen a few posts saying conditions now are much worse resulting in poorer mental/physical health, hence a spike in disability. But again - can this be true? The world wars wounded, no antenatal tests, jobs like coal mining, loads of smoking/drinking, polio and measles… I’m sure there were a lot of people disabled with conditions they wouldn’t have now.

And finally that everyone was wealthy and lived in massive houses. Nobody I know who grew up in the 50s/60s have tales of luxury, I’ve heard all sorts of horrors including ice on the inside of windows, smog in the air, kids sleeping 4 to a room.

Particularly interested in answers from those alive then! I’m mid 30s.

Children don’t need them and every single one I know has a phone and tablet?

I don't know what Holden is

When I started teaching in the mid 1970s we were still allowed to smack the children but only the headteacher could use the cane (or a plimsoll). Years ago when I was teaching a Y6 class, we did a project on the school's history. We went through all the old log books and in the 1870s, yes 1870s, some boys were caned for swearing, smoking and gambling in class! Mind you, there were about 60 boys in the class so I guess they could hide quite well!

Children.
Also I never one said it was ‘entitled’…that’s a leap. We are talking about standards of living.

Children don’t need them and every single one I know has a phone and tablet?

Presumably you don't know every dc though? My dc share a tablet as it's often required for school work & the eldest has a phone for walking to & from school. They are both old models. But I'm not sure what that has do to with a decline in certain living standards?

Also I never one said it was ‘entitled’…that’s a leap.

I never said you did but that's often the general narrative

One thing life has taught me - there is no such thing as stability in life. It can change in a second for anyone, anytime, in any way.

Nobody is suggesting going back, they are just describing the way in which the past is often misrepresented on here. Some of the posts show that there was a degree of social mobility via the 11+ and student grants which has diminished today. If you didn’t pass the 11+ though, tough. I have a decent house now yes but several foreign holidays, no, I can’t afford that and I did go to university from a working class background. Some things are much better and easier than they were in the 60s and 70s, some things are definitely worse.

Exactly! Plus the reminiscences here show how much can charge over the decades, meaning we’ve no idea what future life will be like for today’s youngest generation, especially with regard to house prices and home ownership.

Yes I have my fully paid for detached house in the country - because I moved 500 miles out of London where I was born and bred to be able to do so. Leaving everything I had ever known to be able to afford to have a home where we could raise the kids and grandkids and take in my elderly parents

Foreign holidays? I have had 12 in 61 years

My retirement age has been extended by 7 years , DH's by two. He's struggling, crippled with arthritis and dupuytrens , he can only work part time and now only as semi skilled, not the skilled tradesman he once was

With working, caring for mother who's 86 , funding the grandchildren with school clothes, winter coats, shoes and day trips plus the unpaid child care, there is no long extended retirement for us and like so many, we are feeling the pinch pretty hard as well

I’m 57.
A lot of (expensive) things today are considered essentials - almost a human right!
Expectations have shifted massively as quality of life has improved over the years.

In my day, corporal punishment still existed and was used in schools; I lived in a house without central heating (we had built in blow heaters in two downstairs rooms, but no heating upstairs) until I was in my teens; didn’t have a land line telephone till my teens; shared a washing machine amongst extended family; the list goes on.

Things certainly weren’t easier back then, and anyone who thinks they were is deluded and entitled. We are SO lucky to live as we do today.

Of course. Rose tinted glasses. Dh didn't have a phone in the house, but did have ice on the inside of windows. People retiring with good pensions, I'm expecting retirement age to rise again for me. Some things are better though, eg our awareness of medical issues and MH is slowly improving.

A lot of (expensive) things today are considered essentials - almost a human right!
Expectations have shifted massively as quality of life has improved over the years.

I think this is one of the points that younger people don't realise. They assume that people had what they have or didn't want them. But things have changed so what people feel is a basic essential, is something that was unaffordable to many.

For example, clothing: When I was small in my area (80s) it was unusual to have a change of school uniform except the shirt. When I pulled my dsis into the bath (her fault!) she had to go to school the next day not in uniform - and yes she probably did get into trouble for not being in uniform.
There's always people advising new reception starters that they should get a change for every day.
Our big treat on starting school was we did get one brand new item-the tie. Probably because it was relatively cheap :) and I once got a new cardi because dm knitted it (out of wool from one of her old jumpers)

And schools round us were strict on uniform generally, so people didn't flout it.

I had friends at school who literally had 2 outfits: one school, one out of school.
New clothes were unusual, even among those who were relatively rich.
Some of my clothes had been through my cousins, and my sister before I got them-and they wouldn't have been new when my cousins had them. They got a hole in them; they were patched/darned. Got to a point the knees couldn't be mended, great they were the shorts for the summer, and the legs would go into the rag bag as cloths if they couldn't be used for anything else.

First day of term we always had to write what we'd done on holiday, and read it out to the class. Holidays were camping, or, for a few lucky ones B&B at somewhere like Blackpool. The only person I knew who went abroad was the family whose dad was CEO of the local huge company, and even then, it was only every other year and they camped alternate years.
Many people didn't get away at all.
Which is why I have little patience with the "it's not fair if I get fined for taking my child out on holiday because otherwise we couldn't afford a foreign holiday" crew. It's presented as a right to have a foreign holiday.

I think one of the problems has been credit deals. At one point, you wanted it; you saved up and got it when you had saved up.
I remember my parents saving up for something and every time they got nearly there, it went up. After a couple of years, they sat down and decided what they would economise on to try and save a little bit more. They were nearly there when my brother slammed the front door and broke the glass and they had to use the money to get that mended.

But with credit, there is that immediate want and get which means people aren't used to saving, and expect to get things straight away.
And it also means that they may have debts that need to be pay so are unable to save up, especially as interest rates on "deals" are often horrific - but they don't think about that when they see 6 months interest free.

Something that hasn't been mentioned a great deal is how different things were for women in the 1950s, 1960s & 1970s. On a personal note, family members told my father that letting me do A levels and doing teacher training (early 70s) was pointless because I'd be getting married and becoming a housewife. People commiserated with my mother for the loss of 'board and lodgings' that other Mums had when their children left school and started work at 15 or 16.

Sexist attitudes were rife. Groping (now called sexual assault) was commonplace everywhere and you were expected to put up with it or even flattered by the attention. Women in male dominated jobs were often treated appallingly by bosses and workmates. Women were routinely under-promoted and they could be sacked when they got married or became pregnant. Statutory maternity leave didn't start until 1975.

Female teachers and civil servants didn't have equal pay until 1956. The Equal Pay Act didn't exist before 1968. Women couldn't get a mortgage without a male guarantor until 1975. Women couldn't apply for a loan or credit in their own names until 1980. Women couldn't be taxed separately from their husbands until 1990.

Women were hugely under-represented in politics (only 4% of MPs were women in 1966) and positions of power. The BBC didn't have a female national newsreader on TV until 1975 (apart from a brief, unsuccessful experiment in 1960). There were no female county court judges until 1958 and no female high court judges until 1965. It was 1972 before a female judge sat at the Old Bailey. No woman held the political office of Minister of State until 1965. The first female Prime Minister was in 1979. The London Stock Exchange didn't admit female members until 1973.

Obtaining birth control was extremely difficult for women unless you were married. The pill didn't become available to unmarried women until 1967 but it was up to a doctor to decide if you could have it. It was 1974 before the pill became freely available on the NHS. Abortion wasn't legalised until 1967.

People got married younger eg in 1965, 40% of brides were under 21. Domestic violence was often considered to be a private matter between husband and wife. The first DV women's refuge didn't open until 1971. Rape in marriage wasn't a crime before 1991.

Bars & pubs could refuse to serve women until 1982. Women weren't permitted to become firefighters until 1982.

I'm sure people could add plenty more examples of how different life was for women in the 1950s, 60s and 70s but I think the crucial thing to consider is that although the laws changed for women during these decades, cultural attitudes towards women's liberation and equality took a lot longer to become embedded in society.

....and there are people who would take us back there if they could.

@MargaretThursday i totally agree regarding clothing. I keep thinking about the shoes I had - school shoes, sandals, plinsolls. Did I wear my school shoes everyday? I don’t recall buying trainers until the 80s, and I’m sure I didn’t have any growing up.

Jeans - had the current pair and old, worn out pair, Certainly didn’t have all the different shades and colours- you just brought what fitted you from Chelsea girl or C and A. Obviously we didn’t have internet shopping then, so we were limited to what was in the shops (but didn’t know any different).

Agree re the position of women. I thought maternity leave came in in 1979. When I applied for it my line manager said “Why should I hold a job open for you, young lady!” He had to but he made my life difficult.

Born 1980...my first school didn't have a uniform and I remember it being a nice period, ditto middle school but definitely had to work hard at high school with pressure of GSCEs and A levels, then went to uni just as fees were being introduced. It cost my parents £1500 for the whole 3 years, plus obviously my rent but that was very cheap compared to now, and I was eligible for some grants so that was absolutely easier than now!

I know times were tough financially but only in hindsight, my dad was made redundant 3 times in the 80s/early 90s and ended up doing a year in the middle east as couldn't get a job here. He hated it and it was very much out of necessity.

We always had a family holiday but in the UK compared to my dc who have 3 or 4 holidays abroad. We always had two cars, one always pretty old, one newer, whereas I now drive a luxury brand.

DPs have made a huge amount of money on their property whereas I'm just about to buy at 44 after renting for 7 years following divorce.

Certain things were better then, other things are better now, many people look backwards with rose coloured spectacles. It's always been like that

Yes, the "human right" thing...

Some expensive things are now difficult to live without, e.g. smartphones make life easier - banks are disappearing and banking apps become more necessary. I needed an app recently when abroad to buy train tickets, I'd started off just buying them at machines and then one day all the machines were down and I needed the app.

However, so many people now think they have a right to holidays, and they "have to" take their kids out of school to make it affordable. When I was younger, people just didn't go on all these holidays.

@MargaretThursday very similar to my experience growing up. I had one school jumper and a couple of shirts which was pretty standard. A lot of my clothes were hand-me-downs. Holidays were in the UK, often places like Blackpool but later on we'd go to London courtesy of some coupons from the paper, which for me felt like the most exciting thing ever. I only knew of a couple of children in my class who went abroad. My dad drove a car until it no longer drove. We weren't poor, we just didn't spend money on things that weren't necessary.

I don't have children so I'm not sure what schools are like now, but there were lots of rules and demands when I was there (90s). Punishment was quite harsh, with kids getting roared at by teachers and sent out, or made to stand with their back to the class while balancing something on their head. One of my earliest school memories is of a teacher shouting, 'You're a liar! And I don't like liars!' at me in Y1 because I thought I'd done something but I hadn't. I remember a child in Y3 being shouted at by the headmaster and he peed his pants. Fidgeting was forbidden. The kid in our class who had been diagnosed with ADHD got no special allowances, I think he spent more time in the headmaster's office than he did in the classroom. If you were being bullied nobody stepped in, the teachers' attitude was very much 'sort it out amongst yourselves'. Oh, and heaven help you if you took the Lord's name in vain.

One of the things I feel is misrepresented a lot is how great health and social care supposedly was under the Labour government. That was not my experience at all.

We did the same. Moved away from family and the area we had spent our whole lives to move to another area where we had a hope of affording a house. I've had three foreign holidays in over 30 years and none of them were paid for by us. We couldn't have afforded it. Retirement isn't on the radar yet.

We had the same with the school uniform. Even in high school I had one change of shirt for the middle of the week. Everything else was worn all week long. This was in the late 80s.

My mother had a big chest where she kept clothes I had outgrown for my sibling to wear when she grew into them. We had to stand by it each season while she went through them. Many of my clothes were made by my mother (cheaper then) or sourced from jumble sales and charity shops. Clothes did last better than too.

Very different from the experience of my children.

Good grief @EmmaMaria you should see my Facebook feed - im 63 but many of the mid to late 60 somethings and early 70 somethings I know through our business or personally are hardly in the UK - we are talking maybe 6 or 7 a year at a week to 10 days a time . Good on them but im
pretty sure a lot is funded because they’ve inherited or drawn down big lump sums on houses and pensions. And they are from all over- not all rich Home Counties types by any stretch of the imagination - it seems very common to me.

I'm not seeing it on my feed, I have to say. (I'm 64.) Maybe we just move in different circles.

I do have an older cousin from Essex who spends a great deal of the year in Spain, but that's not the case for my relatives and friends in Scotland.

They have probably always been unrealistic and unsustainable standards, though, on a whole society level. They have been largely possible due to extremely cheap oil.

That just shows that there’s one thing that hasn’t changed a great deal. There’s still a lot of inequality. Many people inherit nothing.