NHS England to go is Keir being unreasonable?

[43percentburnt]

I don’t work for the NHS but have friends who do (and are increasingly looking at leaving - in some cases to move abroad).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cx29lrl826rt

Is the removal of NHS England a good thing? Or is this a Labour gimmick?

To include an Aibu for Keir -

Yes Keir - you are being unreasonable

Or

Good job Keir, please get rid of NHS England - you are NOT being unreasonable

I work in social care which is beyond on its knees and apparently no one will give a fuck until 2028

It's exactly the same way that Trump operates with his out of the blue, attention seeking decrees/executive orders and sanctions, that's how - no discussion or sensible prior input or warning to those being affected.

I work for NHS, an ICB. My whole organisation will be affected by 50% cuts.

I understand we need change but it’s coming at a great cost. Sadly people will lose their jobs, people will get paid decent redundancy but I truly hope he’s doing the right thing.
im quite young but fear for my future. My dream was to work for the nhs and I feel like its being taken away.

Yep, jobs for the boys!!

The Labour manifesto pledged reform of the NHS. It’s now being reformed as promised. I don’t remember all this consternation when Lansley threw £13 billion down the drain to create NHSE and his reforms saw thousands of staff out of a job as PCTs were replaced.

We need more Doctors, Nurses, Physios etc not pen pushers.

In every public sector org I've worked at, the people who are dealing with people/out on the ground grafting work incredibly hard doing jobs we need as a society.

However there's far far far too many managers whose jobs are to create meetings for meetings and pat each other on the back. Nobody would miss them if they left!

It'll end up costing us more.
Bound to.

DHSC has a Leeds office - they're in Quarry House, where I am fairly sure NHS England is also based?

This all started even earlier in 1983 when bloody Roy bloody Griffiths as minister of health went into the hospitals and asked who was in charge . Cue put managers in post and hey presto, jobs for the boys. The hospital was run very well by the doctors and nurses prior to this reform.The NHS has been descending since then. Roy Griffiths was a manager for Sainsbury's who went into politics. I wish he'd stuck to selling fairy liquid instead of pissing about with something he really knew nothing about! His policies started the ruin of the NHS.

No I'm in Wellington Place - that's good re Quarry House 😊🙏🏼

Just saying all managers are pen pushers is incredibly sweeping and just lazy. It's the kind of statement made by people who are too ignorant to try to understand what others are doing. Every healthcare system has managerial roles and the best performing ones generally have far more than the nhs

Also as pointed out multiple times there are literally thousands of vacancies for doctors, nurses and health professionals but no one to fill them. What's your great idea for not only filling these but finding the people to fill new roles

You must have an incredibly short memory. I distinctly remember pointing out that spending money on ideological change, as with the creation of NHS England, at a time of austerity was a criminal waste of money the country didn’t have. This feels like more change for the sake of change and I’m not convinced. Feels to me like they don’t have the money to do what is actually needed, or even to touch the sides, so they’re just doing an ideological change back in order to look proactive rather than genuinely trying to fix anything.

It's not a planned reform though is it. Its a cost cutting exercise.

If it was a reform based on a new strategic direction they would have communicated more about their plans. As the King's fund have pointed it seems they are making it up as they go along

Labour also said very recently they werent going to change the national architecture of the the nhs, they werent going to merge nhse and dhsc, then they were going to cut the remove duplication between nhs england and dhsc by cutting a further 15% of the nhs eland workforce thena few weeks later they decide to abolish it. Even yesterday wes streeting was talking about devolving power to more local levels which seems like a semblance of a plan except ICBs are having their budgets cut in half after 30% cuts the previous year. So who are they devolving power to?

All to easy to imagine management consultancies being the big winners of this when the nhs becomes increasingly reliant on them after jiving cut too far

And in the meantime, the hospital my relative was unfortunate enough to end up in is still falling down and filthy, and crowded with far too many people who don’t need hospital care, they just don’t have access to social care. And it can’t even afford to pay for enough porters to get genuine patients down to have xrays and other diagnostic tests and back to the wards again in time for the ward rounds.

Using money saved to train nurses and doctors would be a start. It isn't lazy, it's based on my experience. You seem to be very defensive, i'm guessing your job consists of arranging and attending pointless meetings. Watch your back or your job might be next!

So what is your experience?

My experience of working in the public sector. And it's not exactly a radical opinion - read the many threads/articles about the bloated public sector. Too many managers who aren't needed.

I think overall it will be a good thing, although change always gives anxiety at first.

I think with regards to the increase need for dr, nurses, medics etc. I have long thought there is a need for a university reform where graduate course that lead to careers that we as a country are in need of should have much lower course cost than other degrees. The “needed” programmes then come with a caveat that the person has to work in that industry in this country for a set period of time post graduation.

Great that was entirely vague, where in tbe public sector? What were you doing?

Can you provide any evidence that management 'bloat' is a contributor to the poor performance of the nhs beyond daily mail articles?

Why on earth should I have to explain my life story to you? 😂It's common knowledge there's a lot of needless waste in the public sector hence cutting 10,000 jobs. They wouldn't be able to get rid of nurses would they, i.e. jobs that actually provide public benefit.

So you have no real evidence, you are just happy to believe the type of shit that features in the daily mail and telegraph all the time.

My guess is your experience isn't all its being cracked up to be

The evidence is that 10,000 jobs are clearly not needed.

There was a massive outcry over the Lansley reform package. Iirc the outcry from royal colleges, think tanks etc was so bad that the government actually paused it's passage through parliament and it was seriously watered down. Cameron had taken his eye off the ball and hadn't realised what a massive car crash it was.

Yet the NHS proportionately has less managers than private business models 🤷🏻‍♀️

Me too!