AIBU to feel outraged that Kyle Clifford is able to refuse to attend court today?

[HappySonHappyMum]

I am absolutely outraged that Kyle Clifford can choose not to attend court to hear his sentence and be forced to listen to the impact statements being read out by John and Amy Hunt. I'm literally sitting here crying with rage and sadness right now listening to their words. He should be dragged there and forced to listen, he lost all rights when he committed rape and then murdered three women in cold blood. Why does he even have a choice?

All those criminals who say they refuse to attend court should have their sentence doubled. Bastards. Human Rights nonsense again.

Probably goes against his human rights😕

Just to be clear, I am not emotion dumping. The intent of the comment isn't clear. Apologies if I have misinterpreted.

If an experience you describe is anything other than hideous and traumatic, I am living in an alternative universe.

Some people are more emotionally expressive and feel and display that emotion differently to others.

It makes sense that your response is acceptable for you. Another, more outwardly emotional response another poster articulates is also acceptable, not to be ripped apart because it doesn't resonate.

Sometimes when people in prison have no control over aspects of their Iives, they hang onto the things they can control. Even if it's to their detriment. I've known plenty of people refuse to sign consent forms so that I can apply for accommodation after leaving prison. Just becuase they can. And then they seem surprised when they have no accommodation post release. Same with their health care.

When I think about the element requiring prison staff to forcibly get them in attendance, I see why it's so unworkable.

You'd require prison officers to actually physically restrain, drug him, all sorts way beyond their pay grade.

He can obviously just be wheeled in but his mouth can't be controlled without a gag. Some officer would have to risk that guy biting them as they attempted that.

In our fantasies we can imagine all sorts of horrors for him, and I'm satisfied thinking about those things happening to him (in Fantasyland just to be clear).

Brilliant idea. The world is going down the pan because of broken justice systems. I wouldn't want to work in the criminal justice system, it must be incredibly frustrating seeing perpetrators continually being treated with more compassion than the victims.

There is not enough deterrent. The likes of Kyle Clifford need to be tortured for the rest of life. If potential rapists and murderers knew they would be tortured rather than mollycoddled for the rest of their lives as a punishment, they might think twice about committing such horrific crimes.

I think we need to go back to removing body parts as a punishment and I know exactly which bits need removing from some of these men.

That GIF. 😂

It absolutely is within the spectrum of normal reaction to events. FFS.

Yes, really scary to think that he is giving voice to something that is already there, but that he is the one who dares to say it. Horrific.

I don’t know why they don’t have a cell with a huge screen. Handcuff him to two guards, chain his legs if necessary. Sit him in front of it, he can close his eyes but not his ears and I’d make sure it’s very loud.
He is utter cowardly scum. Death sentence would be better as it’ll cost a fortune to keep the bastard alive for the next 30, 40 50 years.

What am I reading? Some of the comments on this thread are absolutely deranged.

State-sanctioned violence is a dangerous and slippery slope.

Justice is not about vengeance or retribution; it's about fairness, rehabilitation, and ensuring society remains safe.

Do you think Clifford could be rehabilitated?

Not goady; just curious what your view is on this particular individual.

Totally disagree.

Future scum benefit by knowing they dont have a choice as to whether they attend or not.

The family benefit by seeing in the flesh the weasly little turd that ruined their family.

The scum themselves also get to hear the victim impact statement said directly to them.

Absolutely. This should be about the family and their statements. You can't force someone to listen even if they're present in the room, quite aside from the danger of them disrupting. I can't believe some people here are suggesting he's bound and gagged and his eyes propped open - to what end? This day in court isn't about us, it's not being done as an exercise in public catharsis, it's not entertainment for the masses (a lot of whom seem to want to step back to the medieval ages and bring back stocks, public torture and gory executions).

He's demonstrated his inhumanity. In return for the terrible things he's done, he's going to spend the rest of his life safely locked away, having what I assume will be a painful time in his wheelchair. We don't kill people for killing in this country and I fervently hope we'll never go back there. We're better than that, surely?

From what you're saying I'm really glad you don't work in the criminal justice system!! Bloody hell.

This is the issue - deeply ingrained misogyny that is not being addressed. Unlike America where Tate is being given a safe haven, we are a civilised country and I don’t want our judges to lower themselves to the level of this dreadful person. He will never be released. Wheeling him into court would not bring his victims back. What I would like to see is Tate’s videos removed from all platforms and his podcast removed from Spotify. Plus he should be locked away for the rest of his life.

Or, we could look at what systems of societies and their criminal justice systems actually produce better conditions for the women living in them and try and emulate them. Rather than wanting to ape either the US or the Taliban every time there's a horrific crime.

This is horrific. Obviously the murderer isn’t the only sadistic deviant around - the difference being that he’s in a cell.

Rehabilitation? Seriously? Do you honestly think Clifford could be rehabilitated?

And then he would just close his eyes and sing loudly to himself. Unless you sedate him, gag him and tape his eyelids open. But IMO we rightly don’t do those things in Britain.

No, not in this case obviously which is why it’s a whole life term. In this case, keeping society safe applies.

Generally, and I must stress where possible, part of the role of the justice system is rehabilitation and reform.

No, I absolutely don’t. This was the most heinous of crimes and I don’t think it would be possible.

Emotionally I completely understand, of course he (and all those other utterly despicable people who have refused to attend trial and/or sentencing) should have to face the judge and the bereaved families. How you do it is another matter, what about the staff who would have to do it and may well face abuse and the threat of violence when they have to manhandle the convicted person into the dock? what if they then yell abuse at the family members? There is also little point adding extra jail time given that they getting life and in the case of this person, a whole life term

When my attacker was sentenced my assailant was in court, I read my victim impact statement in person because I really needed my voice to be heard. I read it from behind a curtain due to the nature of the crime committed against me. Then the judge gave the piece of scum who attacked me an absolute tongue lashing and he responded by yelling abuse at the judge which was horrible. He was soon made to shut up but it made a difficult time even more unpleasant. If they refuse to attend then sit them in a room in the jail with a massive screen and live stream the proceedings. Of course you would have to get then out of their cell to do this which is the same issue really.

This is exactly how I feel too. I do think it's really heart-breaking in this case that the family were clearly told and expecting to speak directly at Clifford, and had prepared their statements for this purpose. I don't think that means he should have been forcibly brought in, or that doing so would have achieved the catharsis that they, understandably, desperately want.

He's in a wheelchair. HOW could they not get him there. They literally needed to wheel him. Judge said didn't feel it right to restrain someone in a wheelchair. Smh. What how he restrained Louise for 2.5 hours?! NRFT so maybe this has been covered