Horrified at how many parents guarantee rental agreements without reading

[PinkDino33]

This might sound brutal but I am regularly horrified on Mumsnet when I read posts from parents desperately seeking advice because things have gone terribly wrong with the property their child has rented, and they are shocked to discover the full extent of what they and their child are liable for.

Their DS has just found out their flatmate hasn't paid a single month of rent in the 12 months they've lived there.. Does he really have to pay what the other boy owes?

The DD's flatmate is making life hell and her and all the other flatmates want to move out and stop paying... surely this is allowed?

The DS signed up to a house with his friends but now he wants to move back home.. Does he really have to honour this contract and pay the rent for a whole year?!

It's like parents don't really think of a tenancy agreement / guaranteeing a tenancy as being a real contract, and don't know anything about what they've signed.

Is it a joint tenancy agreement? "No idea"
Can you give notice or is it for a fixed period like 12 months? "Don't know"
"I'm going to have a proper read of the contract tonight.."

It's no good properly reading it 6 months after you've signed it!

People seem to think the contract / how it works with the Landlord must be based on fairness.. It's not fair that their child is financially liable because another tenant hasn't paid, so the landlord can't possibly have the right to try and get the money from him. It can't possibly be the case that they've guaranteed the full rent amount and not just their child's - because that would be madness!

Say it's a 6 person property on a 12 month joint agreement with each person paying £750pm.. that's a total rent of £54,000 that you are guaranteeing!!

I say this, not to shame parents but because if there was more awareness of what parents are actually signing this would cease to be the norm amongst estate agents and landlords. You've got tens of thousands of parents every year signing up to these things which no one in their right mind would sign if they actually read and understood the thing!

It's horrible when these things go wrong and you're living with someone who's a nightmare or doesn't pay, so I do sympathise. But if your child is signing up to a tenancy agreement (especially if its a joint agreement and you need to guarantee it!) ask questions, READ the contract, look up terms like 'joint tenancy' online, ask for proper legal advice if you don't understand anything.

The definition of HMOs you have quoted is correct.

The type of rental contract does not dictate whether a house is an HMO or not.

The fact of the matter is that no willing landlord is going to turn down a years rent up front, and no willing tenant is going to litigate the matter so the rules changing is largely moot

The first one confuses me. How would they not know they co-lessee has not paid rent for a month? Whenever I have had a joint lease arrangement if either were in arrears we would both be contacted immediately?

Well I guess the willing tenant could pay upfront to secure the tenancy and then report the landlord who would have to pay it back and also get fined.

I mean what is the point of this change in the law anyway if it has no effect?

I personally think it will mean that honest, law abiding landlords will not want money up front from tenants. They will want guarantors, if renting to students, or good credit histories and evidence of good incomes if renting to others. Other landlords will continue to do whatever they feel like.

I have no idea what the guarantor process was like when I was at uni as I was never required to give one but it seems so backwards that the system for guarantors of student properties don’t reflect the reality of how students live.

Most student properties aren’t two bedroom flats - they are for multiple students often unrelated / strangers so why can’t they have limited liability guarantees.

It’s mad!

Also when did this trend start for insisting on guarantors for student properties?

It really should be the norm for separate lease agreements. I recall when I first moved to London as a graduate - I moved into a shared property (now called “HMOs” I believe).

Completely separate deposits, rental agreements etc. No joint liability. If my housemates chose both to pay that was on them. Why not do that for student properties?

Same here. Have just done my daughters 3rd year house but was same for second year also, every one of them (6) both times all had separate contracts and each has their own guarantor for their portion only.
There current house has been nothing but trouble and they have council involved now, I thought the halls were bad but this house is something else!

I work in this field and we always put (for example) that the parent/guarantor is responsible for 1/5 of the tent (or whatever proportion)

All the places I went to rent from took either payslips or letters from employer confirming I was employed and my salary.

None rejected it on the premise that “jobs are not for life”. Never heard such a thing!

I was told I may need a guarantor when I had newly arrived back in the country and on probation at work (I chose to be a lodger instead) but not since then.

This is the crux of it.

The pressure on accommodation is horrendous. The pressure to sign and sign quickly is terrible.

If students are feeling pressure to take a property, no disrespect but it is because they have left it too late. We started doing viewings last year and now we have only 4 properties left in our portfolio.

No. That's not necessarily the case

This

we have been guarantor 5 times I think and each time we’ve known it could go tits up but we had to take the risk

its only gone wrong once so far which led to one of my children being ‘homeless’ for three month because they had to move out of their uni accommodation. At one point, once they found somewhere else to stay, we were paying for both accommodation…thankfully only for a few months

but i agree, people should know what they are signing…dh is very on the ball with this stuff

Rubbish - totally inaccurate.
You are not familiar with all areas - definitely not the area my DS is in.
My DS was looking from end October in a group of 4. Even in early Nov, some kids were signing without even a viewing. He viewed a couple of horrendous properties because those were what he could get viewings on. The LL of one (shit) property said straight to his face at the viewing - this property will be let today so you need to say now if you want it. He didn't because I told him not to respond to pressure like that.

@Krop

We started renting to students in August!
There will be less four bedroom properties compared to 6 or 7 beds.
Going directly to a Landlord - obviously they want you to take it so are going to say that.
Just because someone says that doesn't mean they have to sign!
A reputable agent will show a group of students more than one property.

This.

DH is a commercial contract specialist, and read the contract thoroughly, but we didn't really have a choice.

Not in my experience - there has hardly been anything available on any websites. We've been checking since November, and only in the last few weeks have properties been available, and they seem to go virtually the same day

There are upsides and downsides to both types of tenancy agreement.

Having an individual tenancy means that you have a tenancy for exclusive occupation of your room and a right to use the communal areas of the house. As a tenant this means you have no control over who the other rooms are let to and the landlord or people acting on his behalf can enter communal areas without notice. Clearly not ideal if you have a group of young females and random trades are letting themselves in whilst they are sat in their PJ's and the landlord lets the spare room to a middle aged man after one girl dropped out of uni.

Obviously the above show a total lack of courtesy or common sense, but believe me it happens.

Joint tenancies mean that the group as a whole have exclusive occupation of the whole property. Whilst this increases liability it does also increase the control the group have over what happens in the house. The landlord must give 24 hours notice before entry (except in an emergency) and if one leaves, the others cannot have a new house mate foisted on them without their agreement.

Whilst it would seem that a joint tenancy and individually limited guarantors would be an ideal compromise (and it is what I have used for student tenancies in the past), there are downsides. Effectively if one leaves the remaining tenants have the right of veto over a replacement as well as no financial incentive allow any replacement tenant at all - meaning they have the leaving tenant over a barrel.

I would always prefer a separate tenancy unless sharing with close friends / family. Once it’s acquaintances and strangers I need a separate legal agreement.

That said I have had a shared agreement but only with one other person.

I guess what I am suggesting is a combination of a joint but separate agreement if that makes sense. It’s just bonkers to have parents have to provide guarantees for strangers.

No. My son and his friends initially started in November. They were turned down for property after property. They were finally told by one estate agent that landlords didn’t want groups of boys. And esp Humanities boys as they would be hanging around the flat more, unlike science students with their busier schedules.

The five boys tried then to split up the group and mix up with girls but the numbers didn’t work. Finally they found somewhere awful at over £800 per student at the end of Jan.

It was v stressful for them through no fault of their own. Don’t make assumptions. Just because your ‘portfolio’ works one way, don’t assume it’s the same for every city!

I've had 2 DCs through uni now. Most of their private rental contracts have only required me to guarantee their portion of the rent, and they have stated a figure that was the most I would have been liable for. This may be because I'd told DC in advance that I would not be signing anything that required me to guarantee the rent of the people he was sharing with. However, I did have to sign a joint/severable guarantor contract one year when they couldn't find anywhere with the sort of contract I wanted. I ended up phoning the rental agent and talking through with them the circumstances in which they might chase me. I was a little reassured by their membership of a uni run scheme where they took rental/guarantee disputes to independent arbitration, and that they claimed to have never yet chased a guarantor for rent/damages that was nothing to do with their child.

Terrifying but no choice. I know the risks, I have sleepless nights over the risks, but they have to live somewhere. Personally I think the law should be changed so if there are guarantors at all, they are only responsible for their own child's share.

my DS was still getting his A level results last August and had not enrolled in uni or met anyone.

uni started late sept. He made friends and started looking end Oct for the following academic year

Saying that he left it late is just bizarre.

Very worrying but as others have said, I had no choice and had to be a guarantor. My son started looking at flats before Christmas of his first year in order to have a house the following September. The system pushes strangers together who have barely left home. The whole uni system is corrupt.

I signed a contract for my second year of uni with my Dad as guarantor. He knew exactly what it meant but as all student letting agents are doing it, you've basically got a gun to your head and they're allowed to get away with it. This was 18 years ago and sounds like it's still the same.
In my case, I pulled out of the house due to several factors and my options were to find a replacement to take my place or my Dad would be liable for the rent, however the other housemates were allowed to reject anyone I found to replace me, which they did for no good reason! Eventually my Dad said if they didn't accept the person I found and he was going to be paying rent, he would move in and live in the room he was paying for 😂 unsurprisingly they then agreed to take the lovely girl I'd found for it