Horrified at how many parents guarantee rental agreements without reading

[PinkDino33]

This might sound brutal but I am regularly horrified on Mumsnet when I read posts from parents desperately seeking advice because things have gone terribly wrong with the property their child has rented, and they are shocked to discover the full extent of what they and their child are liable for.

Their DS has just found out their flatmate hasn't paid a single month of rent in the 12 months they've lived there.. Does he really have to pay what the other boy owes?

The DD's flatmate is making life hell and her and all the other flatmates want to move out and stop paying... surely this is allowed?

The DS signed up to a house with his friends but now he wants to move back home.. Does he really have to honour this contract and pay the rent for a whole year?!

It's like parents don't really think of a tenancy agreement / guaranteeing a tenancy as being a real contract, and don't know anything about what they've signed.

Is it a joint tenancy agreement? "No idea"
Can you give notice or is it for a fixed period like 12 months? "Don't know"
"I'm going to have a proper read of the contract tonight.."

It's no good properly reading it 6 months after you've signed it!

People seem to think the contract / how it works with the Landlord must be based on fairness.. It's not fair that their child is financially liable because another tenant hasn't paid, so the landlord can't possibly have the right to try and get the money from him. It can't possibly be the case that they've guaranteed the full rent amount and not just their child's - because that would be madness!

Say it's a 6 person property on a 12 month joint agreement with each person paying £750pm.. that's a total rent of £54,000 that you are guaranteeing!!

I say this, not to shame parents but because if there was more awareness of what parents are actually signing this would cease to be the norm amongst estate agents and landlords. You've got tens of thousands of parents every year signing up to these things which no one in their right mind would sign if they actually read and understood the thing!

It's horrible when these things go wrong and you're living with someone who's a nightmare or doesn't pay, so I do sympathise. But if your child is signing up to a tenancy agreement (especially if its a joint agreement and you need to guarantee it!) ask questions, READ the contract, look up terms like 'joint tenancy' online, ask for proper legal advice if you don't understand anything.

As a renter who knows things are worse for uni students
you have to move quickly or you lose the property. There’s little choice, you are pressured to sign quickly after barely a viewing.
you have to be ready to sign whatever they put in front of you almost regardless of what’s in it or you risk being homeless.

for instance, my current one says I’m not allowed to dry washing inside the property, but I’m also not allowed to put a washing line up or dryer outside.

We have been guarantor for both dds and were only ever responsible for her portion of the rent a couple of times someone left and they/their parent had to pay until the room was rented again

It’s not a case of parents being naive here, but there is simply no other choice. All landlords seem to do this, and you have to act quick to secure a property as a student.

It is unfair

Ironically proving OPs point that people dont read things properly....

No, the new legislation will remove landlords ability to DEMAND more than 1 months rent in advance as a condition of signing the lease. Landlords and tenants are still entitled to make any private payment terms between themselves they want - i.e. tenants can still OFFER to pay upfront if they want and landlords can accept or refuse said offer.

I genuinely wouldn't sign it.

I have the rest of the family to consider and not just one DC and for large house shares we are talking about huge potentially crippling amounts of money.

I missed out on two house shares with friends when I was at Uni for this reason. We got to the contract point, the estate agents wouldn't budge, but my mum sat me down and explained just how much money she would be liable for and how she couldn't afford to take that risk. I was disappointed but I genuinely didn't blame her for that. As a result I moved into a smaller property.

It is definitely the case with a significant chunk of parents who post on MN. They haven't read the contract and have absolutely no idea of the implications until posters explain it to them.

It's completely unfair and I wish more people would challenge it.

This is common and normal right across all universities. It’s how it works, rightly or wrongly.

dd is 21 and was doing a masters at Nottingham, 4th year there now. We’ve signed the agreement for her because what else would she / we do? We have read the paperwork. She ended up moving in with another girl she’d never met before, in a shared flat, there wasn’t much else available so here we are. And now she’s decided she doesn’t want to do the masters anymore and has dropped out, and is now liable for council tax (as students are exempt) and has - of yet- only been able to find a bar job for 2 days a week. She’s desperately trying to find other work and a more permanent job, no luck as yet! We’re tempted to just tell her to come home (to Norfolk) but we’d then be liable for all the rent. She hasn’t been able to find anyone else to take over the tenancy because - well, all other students are now housed and no one else is interested. So big mess all round really. She’s just trying to muddle through until July when the tenancy ends.

I think rather than underestimating how much people read/understand guarantors contracts, you're overestimating how much people read/understand any contract. The fact is that most of the time in most situations your option is to sign or not get the service or good and so people do just sign.

There are always choices. You/your kid may not like them, but there are always choices.

My friend's kid just finished Uni - Wanted to move into a five person shared house in the second year. The parents had a group discussion and four of the five agreed to split liability for the guarantee, the other was refusing to be a guarantor and expected the others to stump up. Their kid had to find somewhere else to live (ended up renting a room in a shared house with strangers for more money, which the CF parents still had to guarantee) and the remaining parents acted as guarantors for 25% of a four person house.

Well the tenant will only be able to pay rent in advance after the rental contract has started.

So that means it will no longer be possible to use an upfront rental payment to avoid the need for a guarantor which is what the OP was thinking about doing.

https://viewber.co.uk/renters-rights-bill-critical-updates-for-landlords-tenants

When you say they split the liability... They agreed that, or the landlord did? If the landlord agreed then sure, but that's exactly what people are saying it's usually impossible to get agreement to - they just won't let the property under those conditions. If they just agreed amongst themselves then that achieved nothing at all legally - they were still all, in fact, 100% liable.

Isn't it the same with any kind of legal contract. So many people just can't be bothered to read it or get someone to help them understand it. Same with car leases and HP where people are genuinely surprised they can't just hand the car back if they get made redundant or become ill, etc. Or the car needs a massive repair bill and they realise they owe more on the HP than the car is worth, so they're trapped. Even buying consumer items - they don't understand the different legal rights when buying online compared with in person, or the importance of the stores' own refund policy (or that it's superceded by contract law), etc. Also about home utility/broadband/mobile phone contracts!

I really think legal agreements should be included in the school curriculum as it's really a basic life skill these days. Decades ago, some people would never need to read/understand a legal document, but these days, we can barely live any kind of normal life without entering into potentially complex and costly legal contracts and the majority of people simply aren't equipped with the knowledge and ability to understand what they're agreeing to!

This is the big issue. There isn't really an alternative so people are sort of stuck. It's like all bills that you are jointly liable for - the other person screws you over and you are stuck with it.

A friend asked me to be guarantor for her son, as she is a full-time carer on benefits so doesn't meet the income threshold to be a guarantor herself. I think the guarantor had to be a home owner as well.

She was quite shocked when I refused, but after I explained the potential implications for me if any of his housemates defaulted, she got it. Luckily, his father has a decent income, so he did it instead. If he hadn't, her son would have had to take a year out and try to get a place at a local uni, where he could have carried on living at home. I suppose that's what students have to do if they have no-one who can act as guarantor.

I think it's an awful way of carrying on, and that each tenant should have individual liability for their share of the rent, none of this "joint and several" nonsense.

I'm not keen on being guarantor for our kids but we've done it and will again.

I thik at one stage there was advice Martin Lewis's site about how to negoatiate the risk to just your child's - but no idea if we'll be able to do that for younger kids.

I did once on a thread point out you had to be very aware of what you were guaranteeing and how extenisve your liability was as it could at worse put you in huge financial hole or even bankrupt you- only for one poster to insist that was utter rubbish and could never happen - went on and on it was impossible.

When my DD moved for year two and three, I got my under 18yo to sign the guarantee form as witness, hence rendering it useless! The agency never checked. The form didn't mention the witness had to be over 18!

I was the landlord in this situation when one little shit went ‘fuck it, I’m not paying’ temper tantrum because she didn’t get her way with her flatmates, supported by mummy who’d never said no to her.

We billed the other 3 guarantors immediately for the rent. It was amazing the ‘but….but…’ ‘we won’t be paying’ response until they read their contract!

Then it was amazing the change of tact - suddenly 3 other flatmates and guarantors where on oh spoilt ones case, one parent arrived to stay in the house until it was sorted.

Lo And behold rent paid in full.

It was very much a case of neither students nor parents cared until it was hitting their pockets and suddenly it was all sorted.

Unfortunately it’s never that simple, having been through it with 3 DC. We read the contracts and weren’t thrilled, but there’s often no choice. If your DC is looking for a flat with eg 4 other friends, there’s often a limit what’s available anyway, and how quickly it goes as demand is high, so adding in complications of negotiations with other parents and landlords often isn’t feasible. And it’s important that your DC is happy with the accommodation, which usually means being with their mates so they’re not left out. We just trusted their judgement of friends and kept fingers crossed. Fortunately all was well but it’s not ideal!

I absolutely agree with you, @Badbadbunny . People get themselves into all sorts of mess because they don't understand the terms of contracts.

I have 2 DCs currently at 2 different unis. I was well aware of the trap of acting as guarantor then being liable for everyone. I have been pleasantly surprised to find that the 2 guarantor contracts I have seen so far were very explicit that I was guaranteeing my child only and was responsible for only their share of the rent.

Having guaranteed 6 properties for 3 DC, I knew what I was signed up for. But don't forget that all the other guarantors are liable so it would be a terrible state of affairs if you ended up paying everyone else's rent.

At the end of the day you have to trust that your adult DC are capable of resolving issues with their chosen housemates before it all goes tits up.

PS Return of deposit is another thing to be aware of. What is charged per room and what is split communally?

That’s not true - they are limiting the ability for landlord to REQUIRE payment up front, there’s nothing to stop tenants from OFFERING

One agent told me that the chance of a guarantor being chased for another tenant’s rent is limited - they’d first chase the tenant, then chase their guarantor to the stage of debt collectors, bailiffs etc and would only go for another of the tenants under joint and several liability if that failed

Honestly they really are. There is no way that landlords will be able to legally take six months rent up front in place of a guarantor.

The contract must be signed first before any additional payments are made so nothing would stop the tenant then not making the up front rent payment they had offered. A guarantor couldn't be required either after the contract was signed.

I doubt a voluntary and unenforceable payment made after the contract is signed will be a viable route for landlords to take in place of a guarantor.

A former Au Pair who we sacked asked us to be guarantor for her rent after she moved out. I was pretty gobsmacked and explained I’d think long and hard about being guarantor for my own children.