Worried about DD who is NC

[SMEHJmammy]

Afternoon all,
I have 5 DC, ages 18-26, my middle child is my 22 year old DD. DD and I have been no contact for almost 5 years (since she left for uni). The context of this is my other 4 children all have chronic health conditions/disabilities, DD was our only "healthy" child and as such she feels she was neglected. I feel awful about her feeling this way and miss her very much, she was never intentionally neglected but with 4 children with complicated needs she was the "easy" child. My ex husband and I definitely weren't the best parents to her, we missed parents evening, sports games etc. This was never because of a lack of love but rather being overstretched by the needs of our other children. Since the day DD left for uni, I haven't heard from her. She talks to her dad but also hasn't seen him in that time (he does insist on sending her money though) and she still talks to her siblings. She struggled with her mental health somewhat as a teen but we did go out of our way to provide her with as much support as we could, especially as some awful things external to family life happened. I was also told recently that she received a formal ADHD diagnosis, but this was never something anyone was concerned about when she was a child.
Anyway, DD has always been a very smart, responsible girl, she was head girl, straight As, she went to St Andrews and I know she graduated in the summer with a first class honours, and is now in London doing her masters.

Recently my eldest DS went to visit her, and he has come back feeling quite concerned, he said that she is drinking a lot, several week days after uni and on the weekends (out well into the early hours), she smokes weed (he said not like a "stoner" but socially), vapes, has used cocaine, seems to be just dating random men all the time. He also said she seems to be surviving on very little sleep, energy drinks and not enough food (she was anorexic as a teen).
I miss DD all the time, but I'm also feeling incredibly worried. I have tried to contact her to no avail, my ex husband says if he mentions anything about this to her she stops contacting him, and sends any money he has sent straight back. My DS doesn't know how to approach this and honestly neither do I.
So please mumsnet, what do I do?
AIBU to feel totally lost at dealing with this?

Another thing to bear in mind is that, since three of OP's kids are autistic and one has ADHD, it's highly likely that OP and/or her ex-DH are neurodiverse themselves. In which case, it's hardly her fault that she wasn't quite on top of things, especially given all the other challenges going on.

Some people are focusing on phrases like "she was the easy one" or "we went out of our way to provide her with support" as evidence of poor parenting. But presumably the anorexia/MH problems didn't manifest until her teens, so until then she WAS the easy child. And "we went out of our way" is just a phrase- it doesn't imply that the OP resented finding help for her daughter, as some PPs seem to think.

I always find it interesting when posters rip apart somebody else's parenting (or indeed their own parents' - mothers, usually - parenting, as seen on the Stately Homes thread). And I know you guys think you're doing everything right with your own DC, if you have dared to have any. But you can be certain that there will be something that your DC will hold against you inthe future, be it that you didn't adequately protect them from the ill effects of social media, gave them UPFs, or -horrors! - stifled them by constantly telling them how much you love them (that's something I've seen before on Mumsnet). There will be something, and I hope for your sake that your DC are more forgiving than some of you appear to be.

Oh my goodness, yes - all of this. Going NC isn’t something that is done lightly. If the OP’s daughter wants to get in contact, she will. She is in touch with her siblings and father. She’s not cutting all ties, just the ones she wants to cut. Leave her be.

it's highly likely that OP and/or her ex-DH are neurodiverse themselves. In which case, it's hardly her fault that she wasn't quite on top of things

You really are absolutely and utterly DESPERATE to defend her and excuse her aren't you. Being autistic doesn't make you neglectful! I get the feeling from your posts that you are one of those stately homes parents and are desperately trying to convince yourself you weren't that bad.

Some of us took the mindful decision not to have children precisely because we didn’t want to risk visiting that neglect upon the next generation.

The posters you refer to are responding in the context of the OP’s current concern for her daughter, who has chosen to go NC. The past is the past - but if the OP persists in denying her daughter’s experience and seeking to re-engage despite her daughter’s clear wish to be NC, that past comes roaring into the present. I don’t think anyone is claiming to be a perfect parent. I think they are saying that parents need to listen to and learn from children who were neglected, rather than getting defensive and justifying why they didn’t do better.

I have a young adult with ADHD and school were not helpful with getting a diagnosis because his grades were fine and he got on well with staff and peers. He was diagnosed later in childhood because I believed their attitude that a diagnosis is only necessary when the child can’t cope at school.

DD has been NC for 4 years - she doesn’t want to hear from you now. While her weed use etc isn’t good, she is having a common student experience which will be appealing to her because she had an uncommon upbringing.

I think it’s pretty sad that you think that dd had a great childhood because you paid for lots of extra curriculars, trampolines and skateboards etc Money can’t fix the issues that she clearly had with her upbringing - a lack of support because her sibling’s needs were greater. She was forced to grow up before her time because you couldn’t be as available to her and she knew that you were already struggling with the care of her siblings and didn’t want to be a burden. She was (and still is !) a child and needs the freedom to have a bad day or be mothered sometimes but she grew up clock watching (setting alarms?) for her sibling’s medicine times which is really sad because a 7 year old shouldn’t be aware or thinking like that. You may not have intended it but your dd is the very definition of a glass child and it must have been a very difficult experience growing up like that.

Please realise that her anorexia and ADHD are serious and that she probably underplayed her struggles because she was unwittingly programmed to do so and she didn’t have an outlet to express the lack of control she had over her life. Going to uni was probably the first time on her life where she could centre herself and discover who she is without considering other people’s needs. There is some worrying behaviour like the weed but this is the first time in her life that she can make mistakes without considering you or her siblings feelings too.

Sounds like parentification, it’s a shame you missed that and didn’t see her being so responsible and like a mini-adult as a red flag. But it’s done now. Apologise and then leave her alone. She might want a relationship in the future but she won’t welcome you turning up now ‘concerned’. You’re too late

100% true. The only thing I would say is while I completely agree with your assessment, none of that stops you being more reflective on where you've gone wrong. Her child is telling her that her needs weren't being met and she doesn't seem to be able to hear that without coming up reasons or excuses.

@SMEHJmammy I am struck by the lack of compassion on this thread.
Reading OP’s posts, it is clear that her DD is in pain but it seems to me that OP is too. Obviously, I don’t know as I don’t know the family, but it sounds to me like they were dealt a very bad hand, having four children quite obviously disabled and the fifth one getting a late diagnosis due to masking.
As mentioned previously, girls with neurodivergence can mask heavily and are not picked up in school etc. Your DD had anorexia as a teen so was struggling. Did she get help to recover? Or did she become a functioning anorexic and hyper focus on her studies. It is not unusual for those with EDs to excel academically due to hyper focus.
she may be having a relapse OP in which case she will need professional help. If her brother and dad have a good relationship with her then they should be educated on EDs and how to support her get the help she needs
I would agree with other posters who have said that you should apologise with humility. Don’t try to explain the circumstances and how overstretched you were. This is about her and how she feels. Her needs have never come first.
I know a lot of people on this thread have said to respect her decision of no contact but she is only 22 and still has a lot of living to do. And if she has been living with anorexia all this time, realistically she may be more like a 15-year-old i.e. her maturity has stalled at the age she became unwell.
I think therapy would help, although she may not want to engage in family therapy straight away. Given what you have posted about anorexia and ADHD, she should find a therapist with expertise in both areas.
it is good that she has contact with her dad but the fact that she pushes him away and returns his money if he mentions her lifestyle may point to a raging eating disorder, as a previous poster suggested. The Eating Disorder will want to isolate her from everyone. There is an eating disorder section on MN where you could ask for more specific advice.

You clearly have no idea what family therapy involves! In fact, it should offer the young woman a safe place to tell her parents what it was like for her growing up, and for the parents to respond in a managed way.

I would send a genuine message, that you've been reflecting on how your brought her up, and that you should have made more time for her. That you were overwhelmed with demands but in hindsight didn't realise that she needed your attention as much as the others despite being the easiest child.
Explain that you love her and will respect her having time without contact if thats what she still needs, but equally would love to see her, and if she'd agree you would love to book a weekend or week away for just the 2 of you so you can make up for some of the missed time when she was younger and you didn't give her the time she needed.

No, I agree that being autistic certainly doesn't make you neglectful (actually, the autistic people that I know are very conscientious), but being ND does often go with executive dysfunction, which impacts organisation. Also, if OP or her DH were ND themselves, the difficulties with non-verbal communication would make it much harder to notice that their DD was, in fact, struggling.

You’re going to ‘reach out’ FIVE years too late because another of your children is concerned ?

Yea. Good luck with that.

Your daughter has ADHD, and you never noticed her struggles. You have five disabled children, not four, and I completely understand why she is NC.

If her well-being is a concern, can a family friend or another relative like an aunt check in with her? Hopefully she has other adults in her life who she can trust that can offer some support.

In your case, it’s too little too late. I wouldn’t be surprised if the anorexia is linked to a lack of attention.

I know why my mum is the way she is, she suffered horrible abuse as a child and she did amazingly considering her upbringing. But her parenting was still highly toxic and damaging. I didn't really get to be a child. She never actually knew the worst of it the things she'd tell me as a child while drunk. She's still in my life, I love her, she's not a bad person, just a very damaged one. The problem here is that OP is minimising the harm and dismissing what her daughter went through. If she ever wants to be a good parent to her DD her she can't start from there. I'll be the first to hold up my arms and say I've fucked up majorly as a parent, in different ways to how my mum did. The last thing I'm going to do is make that worse by excusing my role in it or pretending it never happened. At the end of the day I am the parent and parents should carry those burdens, not the children. If OP said this stuff in family therapy that would just hurt her daughter more, it would do more harm. OP isn't in a place where that could work or she wouldn't be dismissing what her daughter went through.

Unfortunately I agree. Liking the idea of 4 or more kids and liking having babies is not remotely the same as parenting 4 kids effectively.

I feel so sorry for your DD that she had to parent herself and was better at it than you so you allowed her to do it.

If you want to ever be back in touch a massive apology and taking responsibility are in order and an acknowledgement of how tough things must have been for her however she kept it together on the surface.

My friends who grew up in families with 4/4+ kids would agree. There always seems to be some dynamic of one or two kids who liked the big family, got lots of attention and thrived and others who felt neglected or sidelined and harmed by it. Even 3 can be really tough if they end up having SN. I wouldn't ever chose not to have had my 3rd, but if my kids want kids and ever ask I'd say stop at 2. 1st didn't show any symtpoms till I was about 6 months pregnancy with our 3rd. Two's manageable if they have SN and you end up a single mum, 3 with SN as a single mum is rather a lot. But if I fuck up I won't be making excuses, my choices so I should pay the price not them.

Ed to make it clear it was friends who grew up that way not friends with that many kids.

You sound very detached, almost like you're talking about someone else's child. I think you need to accept that you and your parenting is probably a big part of who she is as a young adult, and go back to the detached attitude you had to her as a child.

I think that a lot of Disney Dads think the same way - that money on hobbies or whatever make up for the lack of attention and time available for the child. Cycling to school, taking a scooter to the park or having friends round is hardly exceptional parenting - it’s something that the majority of kids get to enjoy.

Some replies have been very harsh. Two things can be true, OP had a really difficult time herself and she also emotionally neglected her daughter who actually did have as many needs as her siblings. It’s not helpful to berate her now for having too many children, she can’t rewind. OP- your daughter is still young, don’t give up on her. If you make an attempt to contact her it at least shows you care. Be careful though. Wait a couple of weeks and don’t refer to worries about her lifestyle or mental health ( even though YANBU to be concerned). You are still inclined to minimise because outwardly she seemed so able. I would send one letter or email to say that you have been thinking of her a lot recently and thinking about how things were when she was growing up. Apologise that you weren’t as emotionally available to her as you could have been and should have prioritised her more. Don’t explain or justify. Tell her that you really hope she is well . Just tell her that you love her and she knows where you are if she ever wants to get in touch. I would send this and then leave it. On no account pressure or bombard her. Make it heartfelt and make her feel cared for.I would wait at least a year before trying again and always be careful not to push for contact. At least she will know that you are thinking of her and it isn’t out of sight out of mind. A few people on this thread are projecting and want to punish you by calling you a failure as a parent. You do seem to still be having difficulty seeing things from her point of view. If she does respond listen and take things on board without trying to justify yourself. Fate certainly dealt all of you a blow with the car accident. It must have been very difficult.

It could, or it could just be her and her dad

Again, straight out of the Stalker’s Handbook. She’s an adult with agency, and she’s made it very clear that she wants to have no contact with her mother.

OP’s pain doesn’t negate the pain of her daughter, and her daughter isn’t required to either understand, forgive, or want a relationship with her.

She's made it clear she doesn't want to discuss this with her dad and that she'd rather be no contact with him then discuss it. She's made her boundaries very clear. A short simple letter of apology and saying OPs there for her (saying this only if she actually can be there and prioritise her) without any excuses or justification might be ok, anything beyond that isnt realistic currently.