Worried about DD who is NC

[SMEHJmammy]

Afternoon all,
I have 5 DC, ages 18-26, my middle child is my 22 year old DD. DD and I have been no contact for almost 5 years (since she left for uni). The context of this is my other 4 children all have chronic health conditions/disabilities, DD was our only "healthy" child and as such she feels she was neglected. I feel awful about her feeling this way and miss her very much, she was never intentionally neglected but with 4 children with complicated needs she was the "easy" child. My ex husband and I definitely weren't the best parents to her, we missed parents evening, sports games etc. This was never because of a lack of love but rather being overstretched by the needs of our other children. Since the day DD left for uni, I haven't heard from her. She talks to her dad but also hasn't seen him in that time (he does insist on sending her money though) and she still talks to her siblings. She struggled with her mental health somewhat as a teen but we did go out of our way to provide her with as much support as we could, especially as some awful things external to family life happened. I was also told recently that she received a formal ADHD diagnosis, but this was never something anyone was concerned about when she was a child.
Anyway, DD has always been a very smart, responsible girl, she was head girl, straight As, she went to St Andrews and I know she graduated in the summer with a first class honours, and is now in London doing her masters.

Recently my eldest DS went to visit her, and he has come back feeling quite concerned, he said that she is drinking a lot, several week days after uni and on the weekends (out well into the early hours), she smokes weed (he said not like a "stoner" but socially), vapes, has used cocaine, seems to be just dating random men all the time. He also said she seems to be surviving on very little sleep, energy drinks and not enough food (she was anorexic as a teen).
I miss DD all the time, but I'm also feeling incredibly worried. I have tried to contact her to no avail, my ex husband says if he mentions anything about this to her she stops contacting him, and sends any money he has sent straight back. My DS doesn't know how to approach this and honestly neither do I.
So please mumsnet, what do I do?
AIBU to feel totally lost at dealing with this?

So cutting yourself off from someone who causes you harm, which is now in our enlightened society considered a good thing by all professionals, was bad in the 1940s and 50s. See you still have a backward mindset. It's not 'running away', it's choosing a HEALTHY action that protects you. It's a healthy solution. Your attitude is so dangerous, harmful and backward, and has no place in society today.

Saying that cutting off a person who is dangerous for you and unhealthy for you is 'running away' is EXACTLY black and white thinking.

The most constructive piece of 'help' OP can even be given is to respect her DD choice.

I don't know why everyone is finding it so difficult, it doesn't actually matter what any of us think regarding what has gone on in the past. The fact is her DD is a grown adult and doesn't want any contact. The single most basic thing you can do here is respect that choice.

I should have clarified that I meant OPs daughter will never forgive her if she contacts the Uni or her daughters friends. She will see this as a massive breach and it will, most definitely, cause issues between OPs daughter and OPs son.

@50GoingOn30

The OP has absolutely nothing to lose by insisting on a meeting.

Insisting?

This is the kind of language that indicates the lack of understanding that OPDD is an adult and can do as she pleases. You cannot insist another adult meets with you even if you are their parent.

Exactly this. The DD is not a child anymore, and has chosen to remove people from her life she doesn’t want to carry along. Just because someone is related does not mean they are owed anything, that malignant attitude needs to die.

Oh gosh, yes. I think the only contact would be a letter apologising and letting her DD know the door is open whenever she's ready.

She may be ready to forgive in a year, 10 years or never but leaving the door open is all OP can do.

There are some who would fight the DD and do tit for tat, so glad at least OP realises her mistakes.

She cannot insist that another adult meets with her.

Because the relationships she has with her parents are distinct from another, and wanting a relationship with one does mean she owes the same to the other? Because one is prepared to take responsibility for their failures as her parent, whereas the other wants to downplay and excuse theirs? Because one’s behavior was significantly worse than that of the other?

It’s not hard to think of a few reasons that don’t, inconveniently perhaps, make OP some poor victim of sexism.

She has fixed her problem - she’s removed herself from a relationship she wanted and wants no part of. Should people stay in every relationship they no longer want to be in, laboring under the delusion that it’s somehow noble to remain in a situation
when they don’t want to?

I do think it’s an overall positive that people are rejecting the notion that they must remain trapped in relationships, yes. I’m not interested in passing judgement on the individual merits of each case, because I don’t consider myself to be the moral arbiter of other people’s relationships. Unless it’s my relationship, my opinion rightfully means fuck all.

I ‘promote’ people making their own choices as to whether to maintain relationships or not, and respect their right to do so. I’m not NC with any of my family members and have no personal experience of abuse or neglect, but I’m not so lacking in imagination that I think my experience is universally shared, or that what is right for one is going to be right for another.

I know with MN there’s only ever one side of the story presented, and perhaps OP is being entirely honest, but like there’s a script with infidelity that posters are generally quick to pick up one, there’s also a script when it comes to this type of estrangement, and OP is following it.

“I did neglect her, and I’m sorry”
“But actually, I only missed sports days and other minor things, and I really don’t know what she’s got to complain about”
“It’s really all about me. My life was really hard, and if I caused harm to my daughter that’s fine, irrelevant really, because I’m the victim here. She needs to understand that what’s important is how I felt, not how she felt”
“She’s a brat, but I’m not going to outright say she’s a brat because I’m trying to look like I’m earnestly acknowledging her perspective and taking responsibility for the harm I caused her (not that I was wrong, but even if I was I’m the victim and thus must be excused), so if you guys could tell me how she’s she’s a reactionary brat that needs to suck it up and feel sorry for me like you all do, that would be great. Thanks”.

I think that’s really unfair.

I wasn’t planning to come on and comment again as it seems to me to be the same posters commenting taking one side or the other which is probably not particularly helpful to OP. However, in view of the last lot of comments I would like to say that I am shocked at the lack of tolerance and compassion. As has rightly been pointed out a number of times already, we have very limited information from OP and none from DD. So to come on and make very strong and hurtful suggestions about OP or DD is wrong.

People should also remember that OP was parenting neurodivergent children back when very little was known about neuro divergence. Parents are much more knowledgeable now and as such are much more skilled. That was not the case 15 years ago, even 10 years ago. Nobody is denying how hard life must’ve been for.DD with trauma from outside the family as well as disabled siblings and overstretched parents. Tearing OP to bits is spectacularly unfair, particularly with the limited amount of information we have.

I forgot the add the last bit:

”Also, she’s crazy and her judgement can’t be trusted”.

It’s very typical, actually. I don’t know if it applies in OP’s case or not, but the fact that people absolutely do use this particular script to excuse themselves and elicit sympathy, is reason enough to treat such accounts with caution, especially when the other person involved gets no say.

What we know is that the daughter is NC, and has been consistently so for five years, rebuffing any and all previous attempts made at reconciliation. Whether posters personally think she’s justified or not, she’s an adult that doesn’t have to have a relationship with OP if she doesn’t want one. She’s communicated her wishes clearly, and it’s on OP to accept and respect that, not subject her to further unwanted communication.

Totally agree . The daughter isn’t even on this thread and yet people are assuming all kinds of things about her perspective and using it as a stick to beat OP- the only actually involved human who is here and present . It’s disgusting really.

@Lostcat

Totally agree . The daughter isn’t even on this thread and yet people are assuming all kinds of things about her perspective and using it as a stick to beat OP- the only actually involved human who is here and present . It’s disgusting really.

No assumptions here.

OPDD has decided to have NC, for a number of years. I will defend her right to do so all day long. Whatever the reasons between her and OP are, she is an adult and if she doesn't want contact then that should absolutely be respected.

The 'send her a wee apologetic letter' comments are the least helpful as they are encouraging OP to cross a boundary her DD has set. Someone even said to 'insist' on a meeting.

The biggest thing OP can do for her DD right now is respect her decision.

‘People’ are pointing out that there may very well be more to the story when directly responding to posters proclaiming the daughter to be unconscionable brat.

What we do know is that the daughter wants NC, and has reaffirmed this more than once. Advising OP to write her a letter is advising OP to ignore her daughter’s clearly stated wishes. That OP is her mother makes this no more acceptable than an ex refusing to take no for an answer.

I’m not sure that’s definitely how the daughter feels though. No contact doesn’t necessarily mean a child is never open to hearing from that parent again .
I’ve often heard people who are no contact say that they would be open to reconciliation if the parent would properly hear them out, accept responsibility for their behaviour , and work on genuinely changing / trying to make amends. Often children are hurt , in fact, if the parent just leaves it to them to be the ones to reach out and reconcile. Obviously if the OP were constantly harrassing her daughter for contact, without making any genuine amends , that would be unacceptable, but the advice that some posters have given- such as writing a letter sincerely acknowledging DD’s feelings and apologising etc- I don’t think anyone on this thread can assume that that wouldn’t be welcome.

I agree Lostcat. Communication in families with neurodiversity can be very difficult and as this is a long standing issue it may be worth considering family therapy. Nobody is expecting that.DD would attend unless she wanted to but some professional input might be useful for the parents and possibly siblings.
The history of anorexia is concerning in my opinion and a family therapist might be able to help with psychoeducation around eating disorders too.

“I have tried to contact her to no avail, my ex husband says if he mentions anything about this to her she stops contacting him”

She has made it known that she doesn’t want contact, to the point where she’ll stop contact with her father for even suggesting it.

It isn’t on anyone else to second guess her based on what they think she ‘might’ feel. It is on them to respect what she has very clearly communicated. She is an adult capable of making contact herself if she so wishes.

I understand that going NC is a popular trend on social media, which is one of the reasons I am suspicious of it.

And I like this criticism of it: "scourge inflicted by hyperindividualistic, narcissistic millennials who reject filial duty, refuse to reconcile, fail to forgive, and take the easy way out of hard conversations."

I'm neither narcissistic nor a millennial but I'm fucked if I'm going to reconcile or forgive the abusive cunt who ruined me.

Interesting that you think it's the easy way out of hard conversations though, rather than a way to protect oneself from the repeated trauma response.

Very amusing.

They don't remember their birth parents and have never had contact with them so they are not going no contact - it has always been no contact.

Let's stick to the issue at hand which is a middle class autistic girl in her 20s refusing to speak to her mother.