British or English

[Dellspoem]

Currently having a conversation/ debate with a friend. Are you British or English? Do you consider one a nationality and one an ethnicity?

My Asian family members describe themselves as British Asian. Saying 'I'm English' is synonymous with something else, mainly because of the connotations with the English flag and nationalism.

They are both geographic locations, so technically this shouldnt be that different. And you don't get the same with Scottish or Welsh.

What are your thoughts?

I tend to say British, born and lived most of life in Scotland

I'm British, with one English parent and one Scottish. I was born in Scotland and generally feel more comfortable there.

Ahh, I wrote a really long screed but "heritage" is exactly the word I wanted! It expresses how I feel about it much better than "ethnicity" or my ramblings about culture. Thank you!

British with the sub-category of English.

The other sub categories would be Welsh, Scottish, Asian and any others that may be relevant.

British is the sort of umbrella term in my mind.

I don’t agree. English clearly is an ethnicity. English people have been a mix of Norman, Saxon, Celt and Viking for 1000 years. That is English ethnicity. Having said that I don’t think you have to only have that heritage to be English, but from my point of view it takes a few generations to be properly English. I was born here to a foreign parent and it’s clear to me that I’m not fully ‘English’. I’m (just a little bit) of an outsider culturally.

Born in England, went to uni in Scotland and lived there 10 years. Lived overseas on/off my entire adult life in USA and Europe, and I always say British or I’m from the UK if asked.

Also feel very European as have Dutch dh and lived in NL for a time.

I'm white English and I would say that I'm both English and British.

I’m English.
born and bred in England, as were my parents

Thinking about it is really racist to assume you can’t be of various ethnicities AND English. I’m very English, and my mixed up background is part of what makes me English. We are one of the most ethnically diverse countries on earth and that’s wonderful.
I think about the town I grew up in, Sikh men in turbans having a Sunday afternoon pint and watching the cricket. That’s as English as it gets in my view.

I'm mixed race and British. I say I'm half English half Asian. I was born in England and lived all my life here but would never say I'm English. I've always seen English as an ethnicity (white English) but after the debate lately I wonder if I'm playing into a racist trope and I should start saying I'm English afterall. It just feels weird to say I'm English when I'm not white, like it's erasing or white washing a huge part of my heritage. I'm comfortable with British though as that's my nationality. I would never judge someone from another ethnicity that's want to call themselves English though. I think that's up to them to decide.

@luckylavender

Ahh yes you're right.

I think the thing that Suella said is what a lot of British non- whites feel.
What Rishi said is the ideal outcome. I would like to say 'English' and would love to belong here - I was born here and know no other home. But I do feel othered whenever I see things about how to curb the 'swarms' of immigrants, who look like me and my family.

British first, Londoner second.
My grandparents were all Welsh, Irish or Scottish, not a one English so I don't feel I am either, but very British.

Both.
And I'd also call myself a European despite having my citizenship stripped from me because of that ridiculous referendum.

The trouble with the "it's an ethnicity" types is that they're conflating race, culture and heritage in a way that ultimately undermines their cause.

I can trace my English and Scottish roots back centuries, well before the civil war for some branches of the family. But I'm neither, because those same ancestors buggered off to Australia in the mid-19th century and I'm very much Australian.

If they'd stayed here, I'm sure those racists would love to claim me as English. But do they claim me as English now - if it's an ethnicity and all, and lineage is the only thing that matters? Or am I one of the despised immigration statistics for them, and Englishness being more complex than skin colour?

They can't have it both ways talking about shared English culture and values but simultaneously saying that the definition of Englishness is English forebears far enough back.

Born in England, but lived more than half my life in Scotland so now think of myself as Scottish first, British second and wouldn’t use English these days.

But if "English people have been a mix of Norman, Saxon, Celt and Viking for 1000 years" then so have Welsh people. So have Scottish people. So there is no difference between a Scottish person and a Welsh person and an English person. If we say its ethnicity they are the same ethnicity. But there is a difference. So the difference can't be ethnicity. Or at the very least can't only be ethnicity. You erase the differences if you make it about genetics.

I think belonging/feeling English when you have one parent from elsewhere is a different thing. And probably there is a discussion about Englishness being something that comes with feeling "rooted".** And maybe in that case Britishness feels like a better label/is broader. But as you say, that is a cultural thing. Its also weird to me because I am English with the most boring family tree ever but my son's father is from elsewhere. My son describes himself as English and it seems very weird to me that he would not be English when he was raised to be English with an English mother. I think I would take it quite personally if someone else said he wasn't. Especially if that person wasn't English. Its like a man insisting to me he knows what women are like/think better than me for instance.

**Actually I think being rooted (or parochial/small minded if you want to be negative) is a particular stereotype of Englishness. Like the John Bull caricature and Tolkein's Hobbits. But that's upbringing/culture/stereotype not blood.

Exactly!

British - I am English but a mix of Welsh, Irish and Scottish - a mongrel like most other people

I’m English. I always get cross that we are all lumped together. I understand that I have a British passport etc but being English is my identity as much as being Scottish is my Fife friend’s idendity.

'ethnicity' is meaningless in the white British or English context IMO; human history is long and we're all such a mix.
I think of myself as British rather than English, even though I was born in England and apart from a spell in Scotland have always lived here. One side of my family hails from what I think of as deep England (Wiltshire and West Midlands) but the other is Welsh/Irish/Scottish. I think I look more like that side too.
Also, unfortunately, 'English' and 'England' just have, for me, connotations of jingoism, although I love the place deeply.

Scottish

Cornish.

Both, plus European!

English. Don't really use British to describe myself.

i think if you’re a combination of British countries such as half English half Welsh for example, British. If both parents are English then you’re English. British is not in my opinion synonymous with English.