British or English

[Dellspoem]

Currently having a conversation/ debate with a friend. Are you British or English? Do you consider one a nationality and one an ethnicity?

My Asian family members describe themselves as British Asian. Saying 'I'm English' is synonymous with something else, mainly because of the connotations with the English flag and nationalism.

They are both geographic locations, so technically this shouldnt be that different. And you don't get the same with Scottish or Welsh.

What are your thoughts?

Same. My dna is barely English. Scottish Welsh and Irish with a smattering of English.

Quite a few random typos - sorry, don’t know where ‘veritable’ came from! 😄

Both really, but I'm English and I consider my children, born abroad and have never lived in England, to be half English.

They speak English with a southern English accent and all the 'British' parts of them and their cultural background are from me and my family and we're all English. They're not Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish at all so I don't see why they're not half English. Anyway, there are two countries they could support in sporting events and one of them is England.

It's up to them to decide how they personally feel about it when they're older, though.

So I assume Northern Irish your father? Just honestly as someone from 'the other end' we would die rather than ever say anything other than Irish but I guess NI has the option.

So you are basing your belief on not personally knowing any child born abroad who views themselves as English, even though in this thread one such person has been described.

Yes. Most people base their opinions on their own experience.

I am still curious about that rules.

And yet you so confidently claimed that someone born to English parents abroad is wrong to think themselves English

Born in England - no other heritage - English

None of us have Welsh English or Scottish passports.

We have British passports.

Both. British (with English/Scottish/Northern Irish/Cornish heritage) and born in England.

It’s not my understanding of how things work. I’m not sure asking me in multiple ways is going to change lived experience.

English. British if needed on a form or something. As someone born and raised in England to english parents, this feels correct.

DH has irish ancestry on both sides (mil born in England to irish parents and fil only slightly more removed) and an irish surname but has never lived in Ireland, only England and considers himself to be english and then british if he must.

I’m English

Interesting point. I'm English, which means I'm also British and European. But saying I'm British or European just seems like a geographical statement. English is more who I am, culturally I suppose.

I've often lived and worked abroad, and if anyone asked I would always say "I'm English". On thinking about it, saying "I'm British" sounds as if I'm withholding some information, or being oddly specific about what passport I hold. I'm not criticising anyone else's choice of words. Just musing.

I hadn't thought about it till I tried saying it while reading this thread!

I'm Scottish, so probably not the demo you intended to respond to this post, but it's been interesting to read it.

First of all, I've lived in England and in Wales, and I don't think I would ever describe myself as "English" or "Welsh" no matter how long I lived there. In Scotland, we say "anybody can be Scottish" and it's just a question of choosing that this is the place you'll live and stay. I'd hope that just as people from around the world can come and stay in Scotland and make their home here and feel "Scottish", so people from other parts of the UK can. But I understand if they don't.

One thing that strikes me very hard from this thread is that I would 100% consider Rishi Sunak English and British. If he decided to come to Scotland and stay then sure, he could be Scottish too but even if he did - of course he's still British and English - how could he not be?

I am, though, kind of uncomfortable about the language around UK citizenship in that a UK passport says that the holder has British citizenship, but there are also British citizens who consider themselves Irish rather than British. I wish there were an adjectival form of "holding UK citizenship" that could be used for legal expedience only.

Well I'd suggest not using your lived experience to claim someone else's lived experience is incorrect.
And I'd also suggest learning that being English isn't any different from being French or Spanish or anything like that in the sense that it passes on through parents just the same as a Spanish child born in England is Spanish, and an English child born in Spain is English. They might also be both Spanish and English but they don't lose one of those by not being born in that country.
Just because its very common for people to describe themselves as British, it doesn't mean they aren't also English or Scottish or Welsh etc.

That’s your thinking on the subject @Natsku it not what I (nor those I know) think. Perhaps you see it as “less” to be British rather than English but to me it is an important distinction. It’s not insulting or devaluing to be described as British.

I don't see it as less, it's all equal, there's nothing more or less about being British, English, Swedish, Chinese, whatever. The important thing is that someone doesn't lose who they are just because they were born somewhere else, they still inherit their ethnicity, and their cultural identity from their parents (as well as from their surroundings so there will always be a mixture)

If you were born and raised in England then I'd call myself English/British.

All my friends from Scotland, Wales and NI call themselves by the region they are from.

English through and through but sad that I am not allowed to be proud of it because of the sort of nasty people who have taken over the st George's flag - the nationalistic sort and the football hooligans.
It wasn't the english working person who did the bad things and did not benefit from the wealth of parts of the country - they were dragged away from the countryside to work in factories (even children) and live in slums so please don't blame us.

Twats all over the world use their country's/area's flags. Far far right always marches with their nation's flags everywhere in the world.

It's just in England that I encountered so far that somehow normal people rolled over with "oh well, can't use it now these people use it. What can you do. Happens. It's just racists who use it". So not only giving up, but also futher damaging with "just racists use it". I find that weird if I am honest.

Ulster Scot.

Irish.

British last.

Should add that I have Dual British Irish Citizenship with both passports by dint of the GFA.

I identify less with "Britishness" now due to the rise in Reform UK & of course Brexit.

English!