British or English

[Dellspoem]

Currently having a conversation/ debate with a friend. Are you British or English? Do you consider one a nationality and one an ethnicity?

My Asian family members describe themselves as British Asian. Saying 'I'm English' is synonymous with something else, mainly because of the connotations with the English flag and nationalism.

They are both geographic locations, so technically this shouldnt be that different. And you don't get the same with Scottish or Welsh.

What are your thoughts?

English and British.

I'm English.

Why are we the only country that has "connotations" about their own flag? And I don't see what's wrong with being proud of where you're from Aka nationalism.

Although England, and the rest of the Uk, is in a dire state at the moment and I don't feel particularly proud of how we treat our elderly and vulnerable members of society.

English.

What interesting answers! Thank you.

Yes it was sparked by the Rishi Sunak interview

@Tomatotater what would you consider yourself?

English = Heritage; British = nationality is I think a good sum up

British.
@whatnooow Your observations are correct I think. English is seen as quite the opposite to a badge of honour. Shame, but that’s how many feel.

I am mixed. Father white from lancashire, mother black from south african. I was born in England and only speak English. I say I am British and have never called myself English due to so many racist taunts at school. I'm over 50 though, the National Front were quite clear that I wasn't English back then. "Just because it was born in a stable, doesn't make it a horse..' etc.

I was curious about the Rishi vs Suella viewpoint. Then I read a few comments online. Now I think there are a core section who think only white people are English and wish everyone else would get off their Island. They aren't clear where they stand on Irish or Ukranians :) but generally they say it's cultural.

Also British by birth but Irish by ethnicity (and have both passports). I would only use British on official forms - amongst the many descriptors that I might identify as, it doesn't really feature.

If people ask, I’m Welsh. I could go into my background but that’s tiresome and unnecessary. British if that’s the only option to tick on forms but not how I’d describe myself if asked.

I was born in the UK so my nationality is British. But I consider my ethnicity to be separate and based on my family and their origins as my parents are migrants.

I could imagine if I was Welsh or Scottish or from the North of Ireland I doubt I'd call myself British though it may be technically true.

Yorkshire/ European.

Yes that's why I was asking you as im not sure 😀 I would have said British Asian, but after the Rishi Sunak thing ( and also DH) I'm not sure whether I should say ' English'. I do say ' I'm from London ' as I was born there but don't live there. Asians who are clearly ( by their accent) recent immigrants ( Im quite light skinned so I get asked by everyone from throughout Asia from Iran, Iraq, sometimes Turkey right through to Indians!) will almost without fail ask me where 'I'm from. I used to say ' England' even though I know what they want to know, now I just tell them where in India my parents were from because I can't be bothered with the ' yes but where are you FROM?'

Isn't this something controversial that recently came out of a podcast that Braverman has picked up on? I heard Rishi Sunak talk about it last night. It was about him. That you can be British if you're not white but born here but you can't be English. He thinks that's ridiculous as do I. It's racist too. Obviously Braverman agreed with it.

European.

I'm English by heritage and my nationality is British.

English.
Never referred to myself as British.

British - like many, I am a mix of English, Welsh and Scottish, plus a smidge of Irish. I never say I’m English, even though I have lived in England my whole life, always British.

Born in London to English parents who left the country almost immediately (I was six weeks old. ) We lived an ex-pat life in the Middle East until I was 18, and although I spent five years at boarding school then three at uni, Britain definitely was not home. I didn't really settle here until my mid 20s when I bought a house and got married.
So I've never felt English or British - when the UK joined the EEC, as it then was, in 1969 I was happy to be considered European. Still am.

I think you are more likely to identify with British if you are English.

Or possibly a Rangers fan.

English. Child of immigrants on both sides, born in England therefore English. I don’t see any connotations about it at all, how weird!
If I was born and lived in Glasgow I would be Scottish, regardless of ethnicity, surely?

I am English and I am British. I don't think Englishness is an ethnicity. Ironically, I think that Welshness/Englishness etc being something passed on through blood is something that came from outside the UK. It makes sense, if you are living elsewhere to say "I am 1/8 Welsh" if your great grandparent was and then it is clearly something that is "inherited". And that's fine. It can be nice - lots of Americans in particular will be really enthusiastic about their family links to Ireland/Wales/England and there is nothing wrong with it. But I do object if it turns into people from America/elsewhere imposing that view on inhabitants of England/Wales etc. A person born in Wales with 4 Somali Grandparents has more of a "right" to call themselves Welsh than a person born in America with 1 Welsh grandparent and they will likely know more about the language, culture, daily life than someone with a romanticised view of "the old country." I don't think its coincidence that the celebrities/politicians suddenly talking about this are those who have been steeped in the trans-Atlantic culture wars.

Ethnicity also doesn't make sense because there is no way to do a DNA test on a "Welsh person" and an "English" person and be able to confidently which was which. e.g. Welsh miners often had family roots that go back to England because Welsh mining towns drew people into them as they grew. There are cultural differences between England and Wales and Scotland. Some very subtle. And differences in language, words, traditional stories, children's games, folk music. Some of that goes back 1000s of years and I really resent it all being squashed out by a really simplistic understanding of Englishness as ethnicity.

If you want to talk about ethnicity it makes more sense to talk about Celtic roots, Anglo-saxon roots, Norman roots etc. But then the majority of UK inhabitants are a mix of all those anyway.

TL/DR the concept of "English is an ethnicity" is the real illegal immigrant.

I’d say British, my grandparents are from Scottish, Welsh, English and Cornish heritage. I was born in England and still live here. I’d say “I’m British” and “I’m from England”. Probably wouldn’t say “I’m from Great Britain” or “I’m from Britain” or “I’m from the British isles” as they sound weirdly pompous.

For me ‘English’ is a heritage more than a nationality, unlike ‘British’ which is a nationality. So I am half English, because although I was born here only one of my parents is of English heritage. English heritage and culture are real things that shouldn’t only be of value to the far right.

British - born and live in Wales, speak English, not Welsh

You can become British by applying for citizenship. Race and family origins irrelevant.

You can only become English by being born in England (or just possibly to English parents who are temporarily elsewhere?). Race and family origins still irrelevant.

Sunak is English.