Gentle Parenting has failed, lets accept this.

[Zod666]

I read everyday about children's behaviour, even primary school age where they are out of control, don't fear or respect adults and this is all down to that loverly middle class BS known as 'Gentle Parenting'.

Let's just call this out for what it is, because it does not work. I have a friend who's 8 year old son does what he likes, is disrespectful, hits his mum and no amount of 'punishment' such as removal of electronic devices etc makes a blind bit of difference, he just does not care.

So how do we discipline children like this? is it really bad to give them a measured smack on the back of the legs/bum? Obviously there is a difference between a smack to correct a child and beating the hell out of them which is child abuse and should be prosecuted, and in England smacking is still legal.......

In years gone by their have always been kids that will go too far, and by this I mean the James Bulger killers who I think no amount of discipline would have changed their outcome in life, but for the majority of kids I feel we are failing them with this soft approach where there think they can do anything without repercussions.

AIBU?

Never ver have I considered hurting my children… I have never smacked, tapped or hit them!

I was hit by my Mum as a child often for no actual reason at all, and it is one of the many reasons why I was happy that she was not a part of my adult life!

If you teach children that violence is a way to get people to conform to your wishes, or to get what you want I think that you are creating a toxic environment.

My daughters are lovely and have good strong morals!

My DH and I achieved this through setting a good example to them of appropriate and kind behaviour, never losing our temper with them and through talking to them!

When we did punish them for poor behaviour as younger children, we set out clearly what the punishment was and stuck to the rules of the punishment.

We also made sure we praised positive behaviour and incentivised it!

People forget that rewards have a big impact on behaviour, not just punishments!

Please learn what gentle parenting actually is.

My opinion, if the child is old enough to have a conversation there is no longer any reason to smack them. But a tap on the hand and a firm no when little to prevent danger I can't see anything wrong with TBF the process works even if the 'smack' is hardly felt.... I believe that studies saying it causes harm are not distinguishing between what's actually happening.

Eg toddler & open fire
What would actually harm the child more mentally
a) A tap on the hand and a firm NO
b) A spanking
c) Screaming at the child every time they go near
d) Explaining why it's wrong every time
I think most would say b & c are wrong but the reason I'd choose a over d is I think it's more likely to work quickly and less abusive. My opinion very young children are not mature enough to assess things the way they would just 1/2 years later and are far more likely to remember mummy or daddy always being sad or angry purely because it will be a slower process so will effect the MH of a child.

For goodness sake. This isn't about Gentle Parenting, this is permissive, absent, detached parenting. Children raised with true gentle methods grow up learning boundaries, respect, empathy and social responsibility. You don't have to use punitive discipline to get children to behave properly, nor do you need to make them fear adults.

OP I was that child. My mother preferred my brother (Irish catholic family where boys more favoured) and I discovered if I was nice I didn't exist so I was a little s**t instead and she did notice me but not in a good way. Fast forward 20 or so years, when I had my own children, and I found being really strict with them helped - I had to as I had 4 in 4 years. I never administered corporal punishment unless it was absolutely the last resort. My daughter was an angel compared to the boys eg one of them, never admitted to this day, set a fire in the bedroom, managed to put it out and has never been admitted to who did it. I have my suspicions but couldn't prove anything. They were grounded after I went ballistic at them and explained why it should never have happened. The matches were in a cupboard so high that I had to stand on a stool to stand on the work top to reach them. One of them was a pyromaniac I have just never found out which one.

You can't reason with some adults either, shall we go round thumping anyone we perceive is wronging us and won't be told to stop? Yes in a fantasy world I would love to do this to the obnoxious gobshites in society but in the real world I have to conform to civilised behaviour.

Why is the child near the open fire? Why is there no fire guard; why are the parents not removing the child from the hazard?

The "tap" (hitting your child; let's call it what it is) doesn't help because the fault is with the parents for letting the child near an open fire when they're too young to understand the dangers.

Children usually don't mind rules if they know why they are there. If you tell children they mustn't do something, it helps if they know why.

I think it best not to have too many rules. Children have to know what is important in life. For mem the most important thing was to tell the truth. So long as they told the truth, everything else was a mistake. They were only punished if they lied, and it wasn't corporal either. Would you let a giant of a man hit you? Children just think they can do that to others smaller than them. New mothers can cultivate a look. Children actually don't like to hurt their mothers, hard as that is to believe.

You only have to study their faces and know if they are telling the truth, and you can get them to believe you can read their minds when they are young. I also took an interest in whatever their passing fancy was, and bought them books on the subject. Books help children with their manners as well as right and wrong, books that they don't have to take back to the library and can stay and be read again, give inspiration.

When we went shopping, they could choose how to spend any money left over, either sweets or a book. It was always a book. Feeds their minds.

My children were far from angels. They had their moments, but they didn't last.

All those smacking their children, surely if you do it more than once then it proves hitting does not work

How many times do you need to hit your children till they learn the lesson you want them to learn

I have 5 children ages 13-3 and I have never smacked them, ever! 3 of my children are on the spectrum to varying degrees and (if I do say so myself) they are impeccably behaved. They are well mannered kids, maybe slightly entitled at times, but they respect my word as final because I don't make idle threats or false promises. I treat each child as an individual and tailor my expectations to their needs. I do lose my rag and raise my voice at times and I wish I didn't. Gentle parenting is lazy and smacking is abuse.

If you're close enough to smack a toddler, you are also close enough to move them away with a firm no. No smacking necessary.

You can also use a fire guard.

Smacking is definitely not the answer, there is a happy medium!
my own opinion is that I think society has become very insular. Once people find their tribe they are often just not very inclusive or interested in others. I feel there’s a general lack of empathy around, and I feel teaching kids to think of others outside of family is crucial.
It’s also ok to get irritated and explain why, or make mistakes and then own them and apologise. How else do kids learn to own their mistakes and apologise? I know families who don’t have a strict bedtime for example. Thats non negotiable for us. It’s quite complicated but ultimately boundaries make kids feel safer.

Children can be well behaved without being smacked. I think there are many reasons for why some children are out of control and not being smacked isn’t one of those reasons.

Hitting any child, let alone your own flesh and blood is SO unbelievably wrong.
I can’t believe we still consider this a reasonable punishment. Should have been illegal for a very long time. What are you teaching a child by hitting them? That hitting is acceptable? That if someone does wrong by them it’s ok for them to hit?

It’s disgusting and anyone that thinks otherwise is deluded. AND anyone that does hit their own flesh and blood should have a visit from social services

Some kids respond to different things.
My grandfather used to clip me round the ear when I was purposefully rude, or if I said really awful things to my siblings (as I'm sure there were and still are many teenage girls/boys who did so).

Was he being violent no, he was signalling that my behaviour was unacceptable. Could he have done it with a look, maybe. Did the message come across, yes.

Did I then think hitting other people was ok.... No I didn't.

Was my grandfather evil and therefore require a visit from social and perhaps to have me removed from his care (I suppose that is the implication of social services, it may not be and if it isn't then my apologies) I really don't think so.

Now as an adult, I don't say intentionally rude things, and I don't say awful things to my siblings.

Did those clips round the ear help me change that behaviour. I would say they probably did. You may disagree as is your right!

While I don't necessarily agree with smacking children it was very common when I was a child, and I don't know anyone who was traumatised by it, and we all have very good relationships with our parents.

We certainly aren't the generation with huge amounts of mental health issues!

Of course hitting a child around the head is violent. That's what a clip round the ear is. Dress it up in whatever euphemism you like. It's still hitting.

What would you think if you were in a cafe tomorrow and a mum at the adjacent table just suddenly hit her child around the head for being rude?

Would you think "wow what a great mum teaching her child right from wrong?" Or would you think "bloody hell, she shouldn't be hitting her child around the head"?

Why is it those children have now grown up and don't choose to hit their own children if it's such an amazing way to parent and nobody was negatively affected by it?

That’s what I thought.

Just an example but I agree about the guard and most importantly agree they are too young to understand the dangers but they are also too young to understand a long and often repeated conversation as to why they should not do something.....if young kids spend vast amounts of time being lectured to I think that would be more damaging/ saddening.

My grandfathers clips were relatively gentle，certainly not enough to jostle my head. But firm enough to give a clear message.

If a mother in a cafe did it the way my grandfather used to, I doubt I would even notice. But also I might consider for a moment that the woman I. Question may well have sat down and thought through her decision on how she parents, and if my grandfather is a good example. I'm sure I would observed a child repeatedly misbehaving and not responding to any other form of punishment.
You may not agree that's fine, I simply sharing my experience.

But my larger point was the suggestion that people who do so, are evil and deserve state intervention.

I don't smack my kids, because I have never needed to. And because they generally respond to time outs, removal of privileges. But I was an awful teenager, who often would ignore all forms of punishment, and so sometimes my grandfather after several other methods and warnings would clip me around the ears, to show he was serious.

My mother hit me and my sister. Not often, but when it happened, it was always about a loss of control.

Dsis doesn't have children, but I have raised two and not hit them. It just wasn't necessary and my two were always incredibly well behaved.

My mother watched me in action more than once and when they were 14 and 16 she told me that she wished she had parented more like me, been more patient and not hit us.

I’ve never met a 5-8 year old I can’t reason with in some way, at some point (children’s social worker). I’d say that’s a you thing.

Of course some children need more time and care and effort, but that’s usually a result of trauma… like physical abuse.

There's a difference between gentle parenting and absent/totally shit parenting.
At least the product of gentle parenting presumably feels loved, so there's no trauma from that.
I work in a challenging secondary school and see the fall-out from absent/totally shit parenting all the time. There is a difference.
Now don't get me wrong, gentle parenting seems ineffective and crazy to me! But there's a difference between a kid who's a bit of a brat and one who is totally feral (through not being cared about as much).