Gentle Parenting has failed, lets accept this.

[Zod666]

I read everyday about children's behaviour, even primary school age where they are out of control, don't fear or respect adults and this is all down to that loverly middle class BS known as 'Gentle Parenting'.

Let's just call this out for what it is, because it does not work. I have a friend who's 8 year old son does what he likes, is disrespectful, hits his mum and no amount of 'punishment' such as removal of electronic devices etc makes a blind bit of difference, he just does not care.

So how do we discipline children like this? is it really bad to give them a measured smack on the back of the legs/bum? Obviously there is a difference between a smack to correct a child and beating the hell out of them which is child abuse and should be prosecuted, and in England smacking is still legal.......

In years gone by their have always been kids that will go too far, and by this I mean the James Bulger killers who I think no amount of discipline would have changed their outcome in life, but for the majority of kids I feel we are failing them with this soft approach where there think they can do anything without repercussions.

AIBU?

My kids were always very well behaved and as a teacher I keep good control of a whole class of teens. I have never needed to smack anyone. Discipline imo comes from clear expectations, firm boundaries and consistency. You must follow through. I have seen time and time again teachers and parents make a threat eg removing a privilege etc and then not following through. It is the most basic thing to get right.
I was smacked as a child. I’ve grown up with no lasting damage but it’s never ok to smack someone.

I’m sorry your friend is struggling with her child, parenting can be very hard.

Not all parenting approaches work for every child (or for every parent). If her chosen approach isn’t working she needs to adapt it or find another method entirely.

But there are loads of positive, healthy parenting options - there’s absolutely no need to jump to smacking as the answer however tired and frustrated the adults are.

Because she just needed telling off in a stern voice rather than 'don't do that darling' voice. She's not my child, i wouldn't smack her.

Mine got a smack on the hand, nothing more and that was in extreme circumstances if a good telling off didn't suffice

But how does the consequence for the child breaking something outweigh the loss for the person/people? When my child was 8/9, he was riding his scooter in our cul de sac and despite warnings, he went to fast and damaged a neighbour’s van, and he paid for half the repair from his savings and I paid the rest. I understand as a parent he was my responsibility and that was settled. However, when he was younger, his younger sibling received a lovely gift which had batteries, it made various noises/colours and he (younger) loved it. Older child asked for some batteries for one of his toys and we didn’t have any so I said I’d get some when we went shopping; he took it upon himself to break the toy to get the batteries out. I removed his battery toy but younger sibling was left without his present, and we couldn’t replace it so effectively he also got punished. Older child wasn’t really fussed about losing his toy so there wasn’t really any consequence for him.

My experience of children that have been gently parented is that they are well behaved and respectful. They certainly understand boundaries. So in that sense, all good.

However my observation has been that they have no resilience when a more authoritative tone is used by others that don’t subscribe to gentle parenting and they tend to be emotionally very fragile in that regard. It doesn’t set them up very well In The wider world in that regard, I dont think.

When do you stop? When they are 18?
Do you hit them in public or only at home?

Do your parents still hit you?

How are you measuring effectiveness and what are you comparing it against?

Eg, if you want your child to stop teasing the cat then stubbing your cigarette out on their arm would likely stop them teasing the cat faster than, say, giving them a biscuit. Does that make stubbing your cigarette out on them justified?

What would you have done if the smack on the hand didn't suffice? Hit them harder?

It rarely got to the smack on the hand to be honest - a stern telling off was what it normally took. After the smack on the hand I would restrict some toys, TV programmes and stick them on the bottom stair, etc until they were ready to apologise and they learned what they had done was wrong.

No I would not have hit them harder. I would like to make that clear to the people who have commented on my comment. It was a tap on the hand, not a whack or a beating.

What was the point of the hitting if you then went in to remove toys, which should have been the actual consequence in the first place?

There are a lot of pro hitting children threads on mumsnet recently, have we been invaded?

Well, we can all see here how it did or didn't affect you.

A telling off, at the time they did it, if they took no notice and did it again it was a tap to the hand, and a stern No, if they did it again I would remove toys.

I am going back 25 years, but you are telling me if my child did something wrong I was not to tell them off just take a toy off them? How does that work exactly.

And I was not 'hitting' them, it was a tap to the back of the hand.

Isn't a tap to the back of the hand hitting?
And when does a tap become hitting and hitting become beating?

That's hitting.

A "tap" is neither a deterrent or startling enough to stop a certain behaviour. It's a euphemism for "hit" by people who can't admit they hit they children because they know it's wrong, but do it anyway.

Did you see the biting thread? That made me feel a bit traumatised to be honest.

I accept that's your experience, but I'm Gen X too and it did affect me, as did the fact that every time it happened I was told I 'deserved' it. IMHO your parents should have been capable of 'keeping you in line' without resorting to hitting. As far as I'm concerned crossing the line into physical punishment just demonstrates that the adult has lost control.

In my experience, though, there does seem to be an extraordinary amount of pro-hitting, 'never did me any harm' sentiment among Gen X-ers.

@mysecretshame I did. It was horrible. There is something very weird about the number of these posts popping up.

The usual mischief-making - either that or a small number of jokers currently have an excessive amount of time on their hands.

There are a number of threads I haven't even wasted time posting on as they were so obviously someone's weak idea of a wind-up. Another one - about the 6-year-old - just disappeared in a puff of smoke in the time it took me to refresh my page.

Think the name Gentle Parenting doesn't help.

If you actually read what it entails it's teaching your kids to respect, talk, be kind, etc.

Hitting your child into compliance isn't teaching them anything.

According to google.....a tap is a light quick and often gentle touch, a hit is full force

I think anyone with common sense knows the difference

According to google.....a tap is a light quick and often gentle touch, a hit is full force

I think anyone with common sense knows the difference

Yes, and we also know which is being used to punish the child (and it’s not a ‘tap’).

Interesting that people who use physical punishment that causes the child pain feel the need to pretend otherwise - maybe they should consider why that is?

I’m absolutely with you on this one. Smacking can often come from the parent losing control of their emotions and not having the tools in place to do anything different. I was smacked as a child and it was never ever a controlled punishment. Consequently it was often unjustified and confusing. And I still flinch at raised voices in my fifties.